Hip Hop slit its own throat. Its just a bunch of wannabe chumps saying the same ol’ stuff and renting bitch’s and cards to be in their videos. Ya get what ya deserve!

It is not just Hip Hop, it is all genres. As a huge music fan, I haven’t found anything released within the last 5 years that has been worth listening to, don’t get me wrong there have been a few things but not many. I find myself constantly going back to the “classics” because I just can’t stand the new stuff, so unoriginal, so forced, such a waste of my time. I wish I had a nickel for everytime I hear the latest and greatest from a band on the radio and it sounds like 5 other band’s songs, just regurgitated, not to mention that, song sounds just like 4 other songs by the same band.

Thankyou for writing this, this is exactly correct in every way. Ive been saying this for a few years now, i can not even stand to listen to anything on the radio because of all the absolute repetitive lyrics and crappy beats out there The underground scene is still strong, Im from the midwest and Minneapolis has produced an array of very talented lyricists that ive come almost soley to rely on.
My hip hop listenings consist of Atmosphere, heiruspecs, Doomtree, P.O.S, and Apathy for the most part….as well as stuff from 10 plus years ago. I loved the read. It was awesome of you to put your insight out there

Greedy poor people helped the greedy rich people kill hop-hop to make a few bucks.

CREAM is amazing. This article warmed my heart.

I’d like to respond to Stave Halet by saying that there is tons of great music out there, and some of it has even been making a run at charts. In the past two months we’ve seen Modest Mouse, the Arcade Fire, and the Shins land at #2 or higher with their releases. The new LCD Soundsystem and Panda Bear releases I think will become “classics” that I will return to throughout my life. There is no denying great music.

I tend to agree with you in that hip-hop has grown stale as of late. Hell, it hasn’t been a genuinely good genre for a good 10 years. The late 80s in NYC was a breeding ground of talent - Boogie Down Productions, Rakim, Stetsasonic, Gang Starr, De La Soul, etc. along with incredible avantgarde masterpieces of the 90s: Main Source, ATCQ, Pharcyde, Freestyle Fellowship, and, of course, the Wu-Tang Clan.

I believe that the Wu were the ultimate supergroup (of all-time, in any genre) due to their immense artistic talent. RZA was an excellent producer, GZA was.. well he was quite simply a genius in his use of wit (metaphors and every other literary function), Raekwon and Ghostface are marvelous storytellers. Raekwon’s OB4CL is regarded as a “cinematic” album, due to its intense lyricism, stark realism, and vivid descriptions of the underworld. That is art and talent, and it’s simply not existent in today’s incarnation of the genre.

There are still some great MCs around - Aceyalone, El-P, El Da Sensei, MF Doom, etc. but there just aren’t enough. To think that simply rapping about conscious topics automatically makes you “underground,” (with the exception of J5 and the Roots) is rather discouraging. Not that I expect a rebirth of the golden age, I know that’s naive, but I do expect quality.

God I’m happy this site is back online…

Anyway, thanks for the comments people. It seems we are pretty much on the same page. It’s sad for me to see hip hop as a genre gutted in the popular charts. Without the solid underground I’ve been referring too hip hop becomes a get-rich-quick, cash in with the latest sound kind of genre. This makes it hard for true underground artists to see success and for real music appreciators to respect it.

Judging by all the anti-hip hop comments over a digg.com, it seems hip hop really needs an artistic core if it has any chance of getting any respect. For me, that means not buying the crap out there. Probably easy for me and the others reading this to do, but still, if you own a 50 cent album you should be ashamed. You’ve contributed to the downfall of a beautiful artform.

Not to say hip hop is dead yet, who knows, but right now it sure looks boring out there…

Its good to see that other people feel this way too. I’m sick of people looking at me funny and saying, “Why are you listening to that? its old.” Meanwhile they’re listening to “This is why i’m hot.” Songs like that simply have no merit.

I’ll have to check some of the artists mentioned here that i have never heard of, they are listed with some of my favorites. Some of you sould check out Brother Ali and Jay Mel, I didnt see them mentioned anywhere around.

I have been saying it for years, Hip Hop/Rap sucks today with the occasional artist. The best years of Hip Hop/Rap was when it was in it’s early years, just starting up. That is where a lot of originality was created.

Hip Hop is flowing down the drain. It’s a sad reality. There are a few artists out there. One that strikes me as worth while is K’Naan. But it’s like finding a needle in a the depths of an ocean. I would have to say, I miss that poet essence.

Heck ya. Great read i can not stand hip hop/rap. I also can only stand alittle country music. Great read again thanks for this.

looks like you struck the right chord j-ro. well done. as a lover of hip hop, i agree with most everything you said to the point where it’s redundant. anyone who thinks what’s on the radio nowadays deserves their ears, let alone respect, doesn’t get either from me. I show all the love i can, however, to those who keep the art form exactly that, art. One Be Lo, who we saw together in Chicago, deserves respect. Countless others, but in the next couple music tuesdays I hope to present some of the new artists New York has to offer. Not necessarily hip hop, but cats who go out every weekend and put on shows that make you think while they make you move.
again, good stuff J.

Superb article.. Couldn’t agree more.

Props for the mention of One Be Lo, he’s certainly doing his thing; lyrics with some depth and adventurous production. None of this pop-centered xylophone pinging crunked up rubbish - it’s just too clinical and boring.

Been feeling CYNE lately - only really come across them recently but for me it’s the best hiphop production out there and the MC’s are more philosophical and contemplative; without the played out gangsta’ facade.

Another one definitely worth a mention is K-OS. In all the above artists there is actual artistic integrity. Still.. They don’t make it high up the charts because they’re influctuated with over-exposed ghetto-superstars pushing the ‘bling’ culture.

Needless to say I don’t bother to keep up with much mainstream hiphop anymore, there’s nothing coming through worth listening to. The odd MC with a hot flow and good rhyme-patterns, but still the content and production just isn’t there. Only recent stuff I’m feeling is albums like Dangerdoom, and some Lupe Fiasco - particularly the tune “Ghetto Story”!!!

It’s all about the old skool Mobb (the Infamous), Big L (RIP), Nas (illmatic), D.I.T.C, GZA, Raekwon, Jay-Z (Reasonable Doubt), J5, Biggie, Outkast.. Rarely stray out of those sorts of boundaries, just constantly taking trips back in time.

I’m going to see the Wu here in London in July.. F*cking hope they don’t have Pretty Ricky warming up…..!!

http://www.userbraindamage.com

This was just pointed out to me by malharden over at The Daily Kos:

http://usatoday.feedroom.com/ifr_main.jsp?nsid=d5b9b6dc4:1119ef69c4e:- 22b3&fr_story=FEEDROOM187370&st=1175196320789&mp=FLV&cpf=false&fvn=9&f r=032907_032523_5b9b6dc4×1119ef69c4exw22b2&rdm=141819.77144527237

I’m just speechless honestly.

There is a huge difference ! Hip Hop = Culture | RAP = Commerce.

Hip Hop is alive and well. It’s “RAP” that has become a victim of its own invention. RAP now is like Rock in 1987. Lets look =]

1987 Rock = Longhair, MakeUp + Spandex ( All Rockstars )
2007 Rap = Bling, Rim’s (22’s) + Platinum teeth w/ bad breath ! ( All Rapstars)

See it ? Hope so. Now…, The Question: ” WHERE THE FOCK IS THE KURT COBAIN OF RAP ? “

I agree with everything you say in the article, J, and I would only add a few things:

I think one thing that falling hip hop record sales tells us is that corporations can only dictate people’s tastes to a certain extent before people get fed up with it. The fact is, corporate hip hop is slick - they have million-dollar beats, flawless production, sophisticated marketing. When it does sell, there’s a reason why - the beats are catchy, above all. But obviously corporations can’t keep fooling people forever with a shiny product that has no real substance.

It’s also vital to point out, as you do, that hip hop isn’t “dying.” That idea is usually batted around by bunk-ass second-rate battle rappers who can’t think of anything to write about except for their nostalgia for the late 80s and their hatred for people more successful than they are. Hip hop is alive and well - in certain quarters. Genuine innovation has taken place, and that’s why while I’m not down with corporate hip hop, I’m not down with people who are stuck in 1994 either.

The fact is, Aesop Rock, Cannibal Ox, and OneBeLo can do things lyrically that the KRS-ONE or Big Daddy Kane of 1989 couldn’t have done. That’s not because anybody’s better than anybody else - it’s because artists build on each other, and the work of the people that came before you makes your innovation possible. Without Van Gogh, no Salvador Dali.

The underground is full of talented people. The question is, why don’t they get the attention they deserve? I hope that technology is changing this - making it easier for underground geniuses to get their music out - but it’s also contributing to the over-saturation of MCs that often buries the very best of us in obscurity.

I guess part of the responsibility for making hip hop better lies with the artists, who need to get better at business and marketing, but a big part of it also lies with the fans, who need to take it on themselves to search out the good music (which does exist), rather than passively letting the radio and the TV tell them what to like, and then wondering why they’re not satisfied. And hell, just from the response to this article you can see that a lot of people are desperate to talk about the state of hip hop, and hungry to see the music get better. If that exists, then hope does too.

A big up to the Chicago underground which is full of talent - Thaione, Modill, Qualo, and many others.

As a thirtysomething who keeps Eric B & Rakim, EPMD, and Gangstarr on ipod rotation this article really rang true for me. I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who has this opinion about today’s hip hop. Great article, keep up the good work.

the hip hop you guys listen suck. You must do a better research and go to labels like ANTICON o BOTANICA DEL JIBARO, where u find great artist talking other things than money, drugs and hoes.
For User Mix3dSign4lz, check BUCK65 of anticon records. Thats your Kurt Cobain of rap. Also Sage Francis. Antennae from Botanica del Jibaro

For Steve Halet, there are A LOT of really awesome releases these days, most of them from underground labels or netlabels. You just have to search in the internet, download mp3 and stuff. Your problem is that you just dont know where to search. Or maybe your musical tastes sucks.

If you guys think that these days the sales are a good point to check whetever if a genre is popular or not, you are really wrong. People nowadays download music, for free most of them, including myself. Music aint about money. If you want to make money out of music, think twice. You might end up living under a bridge.

This article is the best sum of everything that has been eating my soul for the past 5 years. Thank you for stating the problem so eloquently…

Omaha, NE Hip Hop - you would never guess:

http://www.myspace.com/articulate007

@18 Mix3dSign4lz

Ive been saying the same thing for a lil while now, I totally agree with you. This is the “rock hair band” era of hiphop. Im looking for the Hiphop Curt Cobain or Seattle. The hiphop “seattle of the early nineties” could be chicago or chicago and detroit cause there is some incredible stuff bubbling out of that area, but no big saviour has emrged yet.

I just wonder if hiphop can be saved with all the forces fighting against it i.e. hungry kids in the hood who see it as the only way out and internet downloading hence the end of physical albums. Time will tell.

@blit

If you guys think that these days the sales are a good point to check whetever if a genre is popular or not, you are really wrong.

I’d argue yes and no. Certainly the pop charts do not reflect good music all the time. That’s not their goal. They reflect sales. However, good music and popular music are sometimes one and the same. Why does this happen? I think its because music that has strong roots has the power to put art on the pop charts. My example from above is the year 1969, which saw over a half dozen true artists with #1 singles. Why did that happen? Because the underground scenes these musicians came from were strong.

Hip hop lacks that cohesive underground, so the music that gets popular is only looking to cash in. It isn’t building on anything because there is nothing to build on. Hip hop is less a scene than a mish-mash of various trendy genres trying to throw the next hit up the charts.

No roots, no art.

hiphop today is suffering the same fate that heavy metal did back in the early 90s - the formula has been done to death and no one is stepping up with fresh ideas.
every music video is the same - same cars, same parking lots, same strip clubs, same hoochies, dollar bills used as confetti. yawn, people are getting tired

until some new cats step in and turn the hiphop world on it’s head then sales will keep slipping

Bao says  ::  February 22nd, 2008 @ 5:31 pm EST
ummmmm i think hip hop will lead to a new direction, because the sneaker scene (aka. hypebeast) is contributing to new rappers such as the Cool Kids, Little Sister, Kanye, Lupe, etc. aka HIPSTER hip hop is on the rise.
Reply to Bao  ::  Click to quote this comment

I wholeheartedly agree with j-ro on why hip hop sucks, and I can’t remember when I’ve actually listened to a commercial station. I usually have to catch a college station like georgia states 88.5, to catch up on my hip hop. And even then it’s hard to support some artists because it’s hard to find their stuff.I usually have to hunt for music like there’s no tomorrow. As far as commercial albums go Lupe Fiasco was tragically overlooked. However, when I was a shorty I bought two live crew as well as public enemy. So I bought crap as well.

Wel said. Currently, I am creating a presentation for schools in Austin Tx about Hip Hop history and lyrical content. My main focus is to wake these kids up to what they are listening to. Im glad I read this article.

Lots of great comments, thanks everybody!

I’ll have time to comment in depth sometime this weekend. For the most part though I agree with the premise of what Jason is getting at here.

check the noise:political economy of music
hiphop is dead because of technology rendering the production of it too easy….

the ultrasimple shit is a backlash against an oversaturated underground scene that tried to take everything towards more “art,” “individuality,” complexity, etc.

i respectfuly disagree with the section regarding an underground scene because there is an immense underground scene, bigger than it ever has been. the only problem is cant nobody make enuff $ doing music so ppl scheming on some other shit………

listen to the drums from 60s -> 80s it is the same shit that is going on… more glam, more dance floor oriented, more flashy clothes. so think of the “artistic” rappers u feel as 60s artists and these new dudes as 80s artists.

for lyrical complexity check Qwel from Typical cats. nobody can touch him on the rhyme schemes/patterns period.

i respectfuly disagree with the section regarding an underground scene because there is an immense underground scene, bigger than it ever has been. the only problem is cant nobody make enuff $ doing music so ppl scheming on some other shit………

Bigger isn’t better. The underground scene is big sure, but people aren’t there for the music. They are there for the money, cashing in on the latest sound for a quick buck.

The scene has no unity and that’s the point. There is no goal behind the music anymore (afrocentricity, political, and liberation music seems to be out of favor these days), and there is little art being made. No collaboration, everyone’s a hater.

Maybe you’re right about the 60’s to 80’s though. Hopefully there will be a hip hop backlash a la grunge and we’ll get some art back.

Listen to a band called ‘Butterfingers’. They’re Australian. freshest thing I’ve heard.

This is what happens when the big money producers step in and manipulate. I pulled up a track by NWO the other day and j-Ro is 100% correct, there’s no comparison between the rich musical and lyrical art of early rap / hip hop compared to the crap white / jewish producers want to pass off on the fans. The closest thing hip hop has to progress is Jay Z and even that’s growing formula hop stale…

I haven’t bought a rap/hip-hop cd is years because of this problem. One main person you forgot to mention was 2-Pac. Talk about art; he was a poet, not a rapper. Great article and right on.

Well you’re right. But please don’t forget that there is a great HipHop developement next to the Mainstream. All that electro offbeat stuff (a ‘la Grime, Baile Funk or in the Breakbeat-scene) that became more and more popular over the last year really has a future!

Thanks for expressing my mind!

the current state of hip-hop reflects the state of all commercial music. it is a reflection of the state of the major labels and not the actual art form. commercial hip-hop sucks, especially if you happen to be over 30 and can still remember the origins of the culture. what we need is an indie movement in hip-hop, committed to artistic integrity as well as commercial viability (you’re damn right you can have both!) we need to use the internet as a tool for information dissemination and find new ways to promote hip-hop beyond the current pop market. it’s ok if you’ve never been to jail or sold drugs, find other topics and develop writing skills. otherwise do us all a favour and die quietly somewhere!

Hip hop desperately needs that underground scene as iyahman pointed out. I think the first step is to put the commericiality on hold for a bit. Basically, we need artistic investors, people who are willing to put work into art and aesthetic and wait for the payoff.

I think they r crazy hip-hop is the best thing that anyone has every came out with!!!!! I hope people understand that all the music/beats that r played r made by instroments 2! They just sound like they r not. I think it is wrong to dis on hip-hop! It’s like telling gay people thats not right,I don’t walk up to gay people and say that do i no.So stop dis on hip-hop!!

@amy

I love hip hop. I think its a great artform. I think what people are doing with it today is dragging it through the gutter. The hip hop today is not what hip hop once was or what it should be.

Wow this was a great article, exactly what blogs should be. This was almost magazine quality. I think hiphop definitely has lost alot of creativity.

My prediction is that this new age pop rap style about clubbing and finding “bitches to fuck” will die out near the end of the decade? Why? Look at every example of a dead musical era.

Disco. Sure it was great while it lasted. A great appeal, a wide target audience, and had a popular hook into the industry (Saturday Night Fever set a huge trend.) But, from all the studies of this genre I’ve read into, the prevalence of this genre was everywhere. Every night club was playing disco records. Every label had their own disco-themed record, and people just got sick of being exposed to this for so long. There was even massive anti-disco demonstrations involving burning vinyl records.

There’s plenty of other instances of this in time and we can safely conclude that new society and advancements in technology is to blame. We see a trend now, from disco to pop rap, everyone has a rap record about clubbing, and everyone has an R&B track about having sex with some floosie. My main point is: it’s easy to make a song about either of the mentioned topics. I think most people just want the money, and I see why. Most cities these rappers claim to be from are a fucking disgrace. To put it in the words of Dave Chappelle. “If you want to make it out of this ghetto, LEARN HOW TO RAP! DANCE, NIGGA! ENTERTAIN THOSE WHITE PEOPLE!”

Look ! I can appreciate art, or anyones concept of art.I listen to just about all music ,except for rap , hip hop ,and chinese opera.Chinese opera is very complex and lets face it… alot gets lost in translation.
Rap and hip hop however are the lowest forms of music I’ve ever heard.They use riffs and bites from other good musicians , step on it a little and call it their’s. It doesnt use any imagination whatsoever, its repetitive,it’s boring and provides no soulfull nourishment. These “punks” can’t dance {most of them},I dont see them play any instruments,and they sure as hell can’t carry a tune.

Rap is art like shit is chocolate.

@micky

With all do respect, I think you need to educate yourself a little in regards to hip hop. Just because hip hop traditionally takes samples from other music does not mean it is unoriginal or unartistic. As with anything, it can be done well or poorly. Check out Wu-Tang and see if you can pick out the old soul songs they are sampling. And if you want a hip hop group who can play instruments, check out The Roots.

j-ro
using other peoples music is un- original, I hope you are well aware that my opinion applies to most rap and hip hop. There’s no comparison to an artist whom has labored hours and days to write a peice of music so somebody can come along and take a small peice of it and use it to hi-lite a part of their work because they know it sold before.
I am a musician , I have been a percussionist for 35 years and I don’t need to be educated to learn the difference between shit and ice cream.
I give credit to Sam and Dave , Bo Diddly, Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee, Miles Davis, Marvin Gay, Scatman Cruthers. On the other side I give credit to the categories of Marilyn Manson, Ministry, etc…
I like to see how deep ones interpetation of something will go.
I will make my description of my opinion a little more accurate.
Most rap and hiphop is garbage that any idiot could make in studio.
Root’s and some others deserve credit,but the mass of the buisness is filled with alot crap with no substance.

Again, micky, I think you need a little education. There is tons of music that is written and original that is complete crap. Someone wrote the music Britney Spears and the American Idols sing, but that doesn’t make it good. Similarly, there is a ton of hip hop that is, in fact, crap, but there is also a ton that is based off of other people’s music that is quite artisitic and original. Music is a fluid artform and artists have been sampling, borrowing, or stealing from each other for years. Elvis Presley borrowed heavily from the old black blues artists down South. So did Aerosmith and the Rolling Stones. Quoting, or borrowing some music, is an accepted practice in both the jazz and classical worlds. Hip hop artists do not, or should not, sample because they are lazy, or because they lack the artistry necessary to create original work. They sample to pay tribute (like those before them) and they sample because they HAVE the originality to take 3 seconds of someone else’s music and turn it into something completely different and new. If you think all music needs to be totally original I’m afraid you won’t have much to choose from. Nothing is every really original, and especially in the modern era people have come to understand that borrowing well can be just as original as writing your own piece (see Andy Warhol).

Lastly, to really understand hip hop you need to look at the lyrical dimension as well. Words and rapping come from a long tradition of oral history in African American and African cultures. There is some real poetry in the music, and that must be factored in too. I’m not saying you have to love hip hop, but to say that it is inherently unoriginal, or has more crap under its label than any other musical genre, is to label yourself naive.

J-RO
Do you understand what the whole hassle over Imus is ?
That is the crap I’m talking about.
It’s about time we started exposing our kid’s to things that will bring them closer together.
You’re right, maybe I do need some education in some area’s but I can’t get past the hearing the same message over and over again.
I catch myself bouncing up down to rap and hip hop once in a while.
But While I stick to my opinion on the quality of the music,I despise all the superficial crap that it dictates{most of it }
By the way I’m going to take my Salvador Dali’s cut them up and then glue it to my fingerpaintings call it art and then sell them to any idiot who will buy it.
How do you think Dali would feel,?
I puke at the idea that Elvis was the king of rock.
And choices are endless without sampling. I never liked sampling from day one. Whitney Houston did “I will always love you ” WAY WAY better than Dolly Parton , she also gave credit where it was due, and it was hardly considerd sampling.
You and I could probably go back and forth forever on this subject , but my main concern is the violent and abusive message that alot of rap/hiphop sends.
Take care.

Hey j-ro it’s micky again. With your knowledge maybe you steer me in the direction of some Rasahn Roland Kirk.I live in Hawaii {maybe that explains everything huh ?} and nobody even knows who I’m talking about. Can you refer me to any good acces?
Thanks.

Thanks for the insight,I owe you an opology for not reading your column completly, I was upset about what you called the” money game ” and the “music with no thought behind it”. You couldn’t be more right.
And you’re absolutly right about all the other categories that have produced some real crap also.
I like to think that a piece of music is like a painting and should start with a clean canvass. If theres a can of soup in the background , so be it for whatever reason if it makes the painting work. But I never liked Andy Warhol anyway. He made that can of soup the whole painting,and he did it well but I would’nt buy it.
By the way, does’nt it drive you nut’s that people{mostly media}keep calling Elvis “The king of rock ”
I saw him in 76 and it was horrible. He took stuff from the forefathers and ruined it.
Your right that sampling and borrowing has been going on forever. I just not comfortable with it being the foundation of ones success.
Once again thanks , and I’m waiting to see your next article and get “educated”
Take care.

tayah brown says  ::  May 27th, 2009 @ 10:06 pm EST
yes umm hi,thats very mean and races,pretty ricky as an example thats mean and how you feel if that was you and your friends brothers or any one close to you would if somebody mad fun and just straight up talked about your type of music.,…okay do us all a favor even you and delete this stupid website for you get dogged out a gain
Reply to tayah brown  ::  Click to quote this comment

Hey, thanks for the discussion micky! I’m definitely with you on Elvis (though not on Warhol), he’s not really the king of much but commercialization.

I should be coming through with another hip hop article in the next couple weeks, a kind of roundtable discussion with those in the hip hop business on the origins of the genre, what is wrong with hip hop today, and how the underground hip hop scene can help make things better. I’ll be looking forward to your comments.

J-RO !
Would the first album that Deep Forest put out be a good example of raps roots ? This stuff I like and I’ve got their albums. They are more of an organization promoting awareness of certain tribes and cultures, if you believe so I would feel educated.Hiphop/rap is your forte`. It would help me in communicating my point to others.
Thanks, Micky

I’ve never heard of Deep Forest either, but listening to some of the tracks on their website, yeah, I would say they seem influenced by the same movements that early hip hop was in the 70’s. Expansion of cultural horizons, borrowing musical elements from lots of sources, electronic composition. Very interesting stuff, I’ll have to check out more.

First album , ” Desert Walk “

Ah, nice! Needed someone to point me in the right direction. I love all the samples going on there, they flow together well and evolve pretty organically, which I think is a good thing. I’ll have to put them on my last.fm list…

right on ,glad you liked it.I’ve had there stuff for about ten years and I never get tired of it. Everytime I hear it I get something new out of it.
Talk to ya soon.

Just had a thought…
Linda Perry was best known for her one hit wonder “whats up”.After listening to her sing “morphine and chocolate” I had to find out more about her. This is the thought I had, I think she saw all the slight of hand crap that artist’s fall victim to in the record industry.The lawyers , executive’s , payola , promotion etc… and got out from behind the mic. Her career is blooming , she writes for Pink and a couple others I cant remember right now. But its a shame because now I feel the whole world is deprived of a lady with a voice that gives me goosebumps , even a tear once in a while.
If anyone has ever struggled with addiction’s check out “Morphine and chocolate” She would give Janice Joplin a run for her money !
I read the article on your other site with Courtney Love talking about the corporate ripoffs going on in the buisness , thats what brought this thought.

Great article that i actually agree with. Just gong to have my say as i am a big hip hop fan. So here goes. Hip Hop ain’t dead it just gone stale or rotten or whatever. Its watered down and flashy that may have been new back in 1997 when Puffy and Bad Boy were dancing in shiny green suits but ten years is a long time to be still rapping about ice and rims and whatever other crap mainstream rap artists talk about. Also record sales do not reflect who’s a better emcee/rapper its about your skills on the mic. 50 Cent may think record sales reflect how good of a rapper you are but he is as about as lyrical as Young Jeezy. Good hip hop music,artists and labels are out there but you just need to dig really deep. Guys like Little Brother, Jean Grae,The Roots,Madlib, Brother Ali and so on you just got to look. Anyway thats my thoughts. PEACE

Right on Marc. But I honestly think this is about more than just “going stale.” Hip hop seems to have abandoned its talent. Like you say, its not about record sales, it is about the rhymes and the beats and the movement. Hip hoppers seem to have forgotten that. I say, bring back the music, because that is what really moves people.

True but like i said i think there is talent out there you just gotta dig deep. I gave up on the mainstream hip hop and the radio and tv stations that play them (Hot 97, BET,MTV)a long time ago I mean mtv is the same station that refuses to play Gang Starr’s videos but then goes and plays laffy taffy. The whole thing is unbalanced. All these a&r suit and tie guys signing rappers becuase of there look and catchy hook instead of skills thats just just messed up.

the indie hiphop scene has some crazy good music right now. Look at Brother Ali. His music is amazing. ANT makes sick beats that make you move, and the way the Ali uses his lyrical skills, songs like Dorian, Forrest Witiker, Freedom ain’t free, etc. this guy is awesome. I refuse to listen to the mainstream crap out there right not, and i think this article did a great job portraying some of the major issues in hiphop music right now. I dont like the title though. All of the underground hiphop scene is still live, including the bboying, dj and mcing, and graf writing. so hiphop dosn’t suck, mainstream rap music is what sucks.

I’ve been waiting for rap and hip-hop to die the same slow death as heavy metal (too much product, not enough consumers) for two decades. Retched, retched shit for the most part. Kids today don’t know anything about real music. I’ll take my scratchiest Charlie Parker LP anyday over your typical MC Shithead CD. There is an act from Austin, TX called The Arab League I like however; look for their “Death Star” video on YouTube. If you listen to the lyrics, they tell a pretty accurate history of the Bush Family. Good well-written article.

This article is plain stupid. You’re not talking about hip-hop, you’re talking about mainstream rap. There’s a difference. Hip-hop is about more than money, drugs and bitches. Mos Def, Common, Aesop Rock, Sage Francis, Talib Kweli, Atmosphere… these are examples of hip-hop. 50 Cent, Lil Wayne, Lil’ fill-in-the-blank. That is RAP. Radio= RAP. Get your shit straight.

@bboyLESN991 and @Adam:

My argument here is the branches reflect the roots, so to speak. If you have to dig and dig for the good stuff, if the mainstream doesn’t reflect the underground in any way, then the whole thing isn’t healthy. Granted, what is popular does not necessarily reflect what is good, but there have been times in American music history when they have been one and the same. To say they are two different things is to misunderstand the connections between the underground and the mainstream (which in hip hop are mostly predatory) and is to cut off the music from its roots. The whole genre is in trouble when you have a disconnect like you have right now. I think people really need to realize this.

Well, what’s happening in hip hop, is, I guess, what happens with every musical genre after a while - the “founding fathers”, or the people who have something to contribute artistically, always in the minority, are pushed aside by a wave of newcomers, hungry for the riches of the new world. It happened with metal in the late 70’s and ‘80 (anybody remember hair metal?) and it’s happening to hip hop and electronic music right now. I for one am in favor of musical evolution. I guess, what we have to do is try to wait, or indeed make, the next great thing in music. The Rock or Hip-Hop of 5 years from now.

I must say, whenever someone says that an entire genre of anything is “good” or “sucks” I’m skeptical. Life isn’t like that, nothing is ever all good or all bad. I like how you broke things down in a way that seemed insightful but you really used some pretty weak rhetorical constructs there. You’re gonna compare Wu-Tang and Pretty Ricky? Really?

Hip hop still has all the elements it had and more. There are no true ghetto poets like tupac and biggie right now (though I must say Young Jeezy’s albums are close). But let’s be real…there are countless groups and rappers who are really saying something. I could see how you don’t see it frequently because the best hip hop coming out today is in the form of mixtapes (if you’re ever in New York City on saturday head up to 125th and Lennox and you’ll see what I’m talking about). The lyrics are about drugs and guns and hos, but the actual message that the artists are trying to get across is the same one that Wu-Tang, Biggie and Tupac were getting across 10 years ago.

If you want to talk about the total music, are you telling me that Lil John isn’t hip hop? Timbaland isn’t part of hip hop? Dr. Dre? I’m not even going to get into an analysis of the number of samples and the musical elements they attribute, but I think we can all agree that there are at least some hip hop producers who are among the outright best musicians in the world. I couldn’t break it down, but I can say with conviction that Dr. Dre or Lil John have an ability to put music together that has universal appeal. I’m talking about music that’s catchy enough to have little white girls from the suburbs nodding their heads and lip synching lyrics about sweat running down someone’s balls. Let’s see Arcade Fire do that.

End of the day, hip hop isn’t dead. I scanned the top hip hop singles the other day and was appauled at the sheer volume of crap. Two step, walk it out, crunk blah blah. Most of it is garbage. But then I hear Kanye’s “Throw Some D’s” remix or the a Reup Gang mixtape and I remember why I love hip hop so much. I think if you just casually scan what’s on the radio or the singles charts, yeah you’re going to say that hip hop sucks now. But there’s a whole world out there that you’re probably not seeing. If you really want to hear some new things, email me and I’ll be happy to hit you with some suggestions.

Its just the SAME THING over and over and over over and over and over over and over and over.
It not even music! The few melodies you do hear have been
stolen.
I simply dont understand why people -and our kids!-
are being dumbed-down
and no one seems to see it.

@PK Kline

If you are referring to current hip hop offerings, I agree wholeheartedly. If you are referring to hip hop in general, you are sadly mistaken. Take a look at some of the underground artists mentioned in the article and in the comments. You’re in for a surprise.

I’m in agreement that the stuff on the radio is mostly garbage but lets look at some facts. We agree that you have to look with some depth to find good hip hop, but millions of people are eating up whats on the radio not just in America but around the world. You can’t blame mainstream rap for doing what it does while getting probably some of the most attention and money music-wise around the world.

If those millions of people love rap so much, you have to wonder, should we be critisizing rap itself or the reason that it’s so popular and such a huge business: the people who listen to it?

I’m in agreement with you there Adam. I think a lot of the power here rests with consumers. I wish that people would stop buying crap, but that’s a pretty futile wish isn’t it?

However, hip hop did not get popular on crap. What really broke hip hop into the mainstream was gangster rappers like Biggie Smalls, Tupac, Jay-Z, Snoop Dogg, Ice Cube, etc… Now, these guys weren’t always artists, and I don’t like everything they put out, but they did have their moments and a lot of what they did I would consider real hip hop music. That has all gone down hill of course.

So, to revitalize the genre, the usual step is to go back underground (this has happened with rock more than once). But there are so many problems in the underground scene (not the least of which is the lure of huge money if you sell out) that I’m not sure this will work for hip hop. I’m sure someone will prove me wrong and create a new scene in an entirely unforseen direction (see grunge coming out of hair metal in the early 90’s), but right now, in my experience, the hip hop scene is so divisive and fragmented I don’t see it happening.

Let’s face it: White kids are the determining factor on what is popular in the media. These days, white kids are moving away from the excess of hip-hop and toward the emotional, anomie-driven sounds of Indie and Emo. The balloon of white kids who thought hip hop was cool during their high school days are starting to grow up. Those same kids are now starting to look for something valid in the artform and they’re continuously confronted by meaningless hip-hop that only celebrates the conquests of sex and power, money and clubbing. Basically, people of all ilks are looking for something more meaningful in this time of negativity and borderline fascism. Compound that with the fact that there are too many rappers who look and sound the same and you have a genre that is on the verge of collapse.

Only good will come from the Great White Awakening. Rappers will need to focus on music with MEANING, not just celebratory anthems or crude riffs. We’re about to see who truly has the skillz to reign over hip-hop, and my guess is that it won’t be Young Jeezy or 50 or any of the other crummy rappers who have been puked up by the dominant power structure. Hip Hop is about to enter another 8-10 year downturn caused by lack of white attention. Sure, it will survive, and until another few artists step up to put a new twist on the sound, we can look forward to a focus on dreary, crybaby rock. C’est La Vie.

@Noir

I’m of the mind that hip hop as a genre can appeal and be created by all races. It is protest music, music by the downtrodden, that can be created by anyone with a similar set of experiences.

That said, there is no question white kids have contributed to the rise of hip hop as a money-making force. I’m seeing that downturn too, and I fear it will be 8-10 years as you say. In my opinion, that is way too long, and much longer than most genres in their nadir. However, I see it coming and for that length of time because of the rotten nature of the underground. Never has a popular genre preyed so heavily on its underground, robbing it of good artists, converting many more artists into sell-outs, and promoting the get-rich-quick culture that only serves those with the power and the money. It is really too bad, because there is a lot left to be said in the ghettos of America that will need to find another outlet.

I’ve been saying this for years. Thanks for publishing this article, it was very well written and thought out.

Anyone who says that a genre like rap is dying is too lazy to see past the facade of consumer-driven hip-hop.I admit it is very easy to stereotype this genre and even rule it out as a genre that’s still evolving, but as long as there are independent mc’s out there whose material isn’t driven by their fake lifestyles there will continue to be progress.As Jedi Mind Tricks put it “Our real mc’s and dj’s are a minority.”

right on. this article hits the spot.

It has been slightly mentioned before, but I don’t think the industry was mentioned enough. Alot of times artists are forced to put out crap that the producers or managers or labels tell them will sell. Also the industry looks for artists with the simple catchy tune instead of the artistic merit. Alot of the musicians that get picked up by the major labels just aren’t very good [b]artists[/b]. It is like the Louvre wanting some of my paintings because thay are flashy and colorful even though I don’t have much artistsc talent. Like the article said, there are alot of good underground/local artists out there, but the people running the show don’t seem to be able to tell art from a whole in the ground. Or they don’t care, or they only care about making a buck themselves.

HipHop and Rap has musically sucked for a long time now. There are a few gems from the genre, but cRap has outlived its popularity and usefulness. No tears sheed here.

Hip-Hop is not music. It is mind-numbing garbage that brings discredit to the black community. Hip-Hop has destroyed black culture. One can only see blacks in a negative manner when they listen to the hideous lyrics that accompany the incessant drone. Wake-up black America.
Quit defending this garbage. And you white fools, quit aiding and abetting something so demeaning to blacks.

@Vern

I don’t think that popular music and artistic music are mutually exclusive. Sure, the industry looks for what it can sell, but there have been periods in the history of American music where that has also been real music, worth listening to. Some of the blame lies with the industry, which has been unusually predatory in hip hop’s case, but some of the blame lies with the artists.

Noir, what white kids are you talking about? Sure maybe one generation will move on, but what about all the following generations? Borderline fascism? Since when is talking about women, money and drugs borderline fascism? What Great Awakening are you talking about, because I don’t see it anywhere. The only fascism here is in what you wrote: “Hip Hop is about to enter another 8-10 year downturn caused by lack of white attention.” What does that even mean?

As far as how rap evolved, yes those artists you named (minus Snoop) had a lot to do with it, but it isn’t on them for what rap turned into. Biggie and Tupac who are pretty much unanimously deemed the most influential and important modern rappers, pretty much the fathers of todays rap game, had messages. Sure they talked about Cars, Women, Drugs, Power and whatever, but that wasn’t what their lyrics were about.

The so called music biz is over, done, kaput. Start listening to FREE, creative commons music and find out what you have been missing.

This was a great analysis. Thanks for the interesting read! My web site Love Across Borders was created with one specific goal in mind: To help people be more creative and artistic with their poetry.

Adam, you get it! It’s not about the lyrics. It’s not about the money. Tupac and Biggie were influential because they were highly original, they had complex messages, and they made music. Really, it is as simple as that. (though making real music is not as easy as it looks…)

@Joel

I think I’m with you…hip hop isn’t dead, and I’m not saying that (see the post title…hip hop ISN’T dying. The point is, while you do have some great stuff in the mainstream (few and far between, but I’ll go with you on Kanye, some Jay-Z, some Eminem), and you’ve got a lot of stuff in the underground, these scenes don’t seem to be working together. Rather, they seem like they are preying off each other. I’ve been to 125th and Lennox. Here’s the problem, the amount of crap mixtapes compared to anything worth listening to (anything with real musical merit) doesn’t lead me to believe the scene is healthy. Music lovers, especially those in the underground, will always have to seperate the wheat from the chaff, or the cream from the crap, but hip hop makes you work! Why is there so much crap? I argue that it is because there is no longer a focus on musical elements or a complex message. And, I think a weak underground scene will cause a lot of people to be turned off by hip hop. Like it or not, people love being part of a social community. The underground hip hop scene makes you feel like a loner. Everyone has their own favorites and everything else sucks. That’s the vibe I get consistantly, even among the artists! I hope you’ll agree it is a problem.

This is not music, it is not poetry, it is the breathing of sub-human, maudlin, threateningly whiney, self-engrossed excresence. Drugs, sex, money, guns, death: the building blocks and constant repetitive chant of zombies without souls, driven by the devil with no future. Even when they reach the top of the heap they have nothing. Nothing: the sum total of their “art” and their lives.
Why would anyone want to listen to it. The radio stations won’t play it, the greater population of people at large are listening to 1950’s-1980’s music, because they can’t stand it. The only thing standing between them and us is the police.

@Arrow

You clearly aren’t listening to the right things. Perhaps someone else here would care to point Arrow to a couple of artists that might be worth a listen?

hip hop followed the same path as rock & roll. rocks best songs came during the 60s - multitude of styles and originality - then it became big business and everyone and their mom got signed, not just the best artists, so rock became mediocre. hip hops apex was late 80s early 90s - multitude of styles and originality -, puff daddy arrived and made money the goal and ruined it, everyone and their mom got signed, not just the best artists, and hip hop became the mediocrity you see today. and music wise im sure it didnt help that sampling couldnt be done as freely as it was in the past.

At twenty years only I am a bit too young to remember a time when mainstream hip hop was worth listening to, assuming such a phenomenon did in fact occur, but I cannot help feeling that artists like 50-Cent really lowered the standard to where the artist does not even need to be coherent or use more than three samples to make the charts, and sure, eventually it is going to take its toll. I do wish there were a more artistic underground scene because I think there have been a few really talented hip hop artists in the last couple of years: Kanye West, who has been mentioned, a man with undeniable talent even though his lyrics make me angry sometimes (it seems a little pompous in my opinion to declare oneself an instrument of God), the Streets, possibly Gnarls Barkley, and then of course there is Del tha Funkee Homosapien (Deltron 3030) and several other Danger Mouse projects.

The sort of real life hip hop you can find on the streets of Philadelphia will survive the current era of bad rap on TV because the streets are the genre’s birth place and the kind of hip hop you find there is still the real deal. As far as the charts, though, I think over the next couple of years a lot of the genre will be absorbed into the indie rock scene as has been the trend.

Anyone heard anything about the Gorillaz movie, by the way? I might have to spend the $200 to see that one in theatres. That price was an exaggeration, but if you drop a zero it becomes disappointingly accurate.

Well said Derrick, though I would be dissapointed to see hip hop absorbed into indie rock. There is still a lot of real suffering out there in the world, and inequality still exists in America’s poorer areas. Hip hop still has a lot to say about that condition that I feel gets glossed over by most indie rock acts. That said, there is nothing wrong with crossover appeal and indie rock (as much as I personally don’t like the genre) has a lot of artistic appeal, so I can respect it.

True enough, J-Ro, but I doubt a couple of rich white men at Capitol Records much care about the suffering and inequality in the poorer areas of America. Hip-Hop will always exist in certain areas in its pure form, but mainstream as a general rule is more about profit than artistic expression, hip-hop, ironically, more than other genres.

you’re right - the golden years of hip hop have gone, these kids don’t know nothing, these new artists are rubbish - man you sound like an arrogrant middle age middle class white dude out of step with the youth of today - people where saying the same shit when you were a kid,rap’s different, it’s moved on - it might not be what you want but it’s not being made for you. and its not selling because of downloading but its bigger than ever - look at what drives youtube, myspace.

Curious - how much hip hop from outside America have you listened to? There’s a lot less focus on the guns/drugs/money/women that pervades the pop-hop that you’re paying out here. Yes, it’s not exactly healthy in its core market, but hip hop is far from dying, or a creative genre with an artistic-based underground, throughout the rest of the world.

Karan, I’ve heard a bunch of British hip hop, and some from elsewhere, but the US remains the powerhouse, so to speak. That said, there is a ton of great international stuff out there, often more mainstream and certainly more interesting. However, I wonder if international hip hop will go through the same downturn we are seeing in the US. Remember, hip hop there is about 10-15 years behind in its history than hip hop here.

Chad,
I understand what you’re saying, and the thought has crossed my mind, but I don’t think most people here, myself included, are against new music in general - I run the radio station on campus so I can’t not keep up with music as much as possible - but the situation is a little unusual with hip-hop because commercialization affects it differently than other genres; most music has always been, to some degree, about playing shows and making money, but hip-hop is sort of anti-establishment by nature so, as with punk, the commercialization makes it sort of ridiculous. One can’t really take too seriously some guy rapping about life being tough while he’s getting paid huge money by old rich white men and having his crib shown off on MTV.

Music always changes, but modern, commercialized rap is basically a mockery of the genre’s origin.

I think mixtapes are in higher circulation, and are not being counted…. Artists spend a fair amount of their time and also make a hefty profit on the sale of mixtapes…

I don’t think hip-hop’s underground is as lacking as all that. You try hard enough and you’ll find great stuff whether you like hardcore rap, socially aware politicised rap, poetic deep stuff, whatever. Independent labels like Stones Throw, Def Jux, Babygrande and Rhymesayers are taking the genre to new places, and already this year I know of two soon-to-be classic lps released (El-P’s “I’ll Sleep When You’re Dead” and Brother Ali’s “The Undisputed Truth”) that keep the old skool values and integrity while pushing production and lyrics forward. You complain about the lack of the good ol days (circa 88-93) but we’re all a lot more cynical/post-modern/etc. now, and the elements of real rap, conciousness and self-awarenes, define the B-Boy aethetic, unlike the more self-induglent fantasism of rock (not necessarily a bad thing). In essence thats what being “real” means in proper hip-hop. Even if you don’t get the commerical coverage, you can still get great new hip-hop, even in a chain store (more easily off the net tho), so there’s no excuse to claim hip hop’s dead if you don’t care about it enough to give it a chance. I only listen to underground, not for the sake of it, I try and feel the chart stuff, but the weak synth beats and limp lyrics keep me away. Basicall altho it’s a shame the mainstream doesn’t give these guys a chance, hip hop wasn’t made for the benefit the charts or the suburbs, its made for people involved in the culture and the environments that spawn hip hop artists. Its dead to the mainstream because its values of escapism and image-conciousness these days are simply incompatible with the integrity and truth that defines real hip hop, along with inventive production, MCs who can ride a beat/manipulate language/put real ideas in their lyrical content. I live in a seaside town in England for fook’s sake an I can keep up with the scene, why can’t y’all. As is natural for a living culture that progresses, an album is always on its way that’ll redefine the benchmark, and while that still happens even at a local/underground level, hip hop’ll still be my greatest musical love. E.G. utube Jedi Mind Trick’s “Uncommon Valour Vietnam” right now, ever heard ANYTHING as mind-blowing as the 2nd verses lyrics and cadence? Jay-Z/Pac/Kanye ever dropped anything that comes CLOSE? didn’t think so.
Need proof? Here’s a link http://www.adultswim.com/williams/music/defswim/index.html to a free label overview of Def Jux in 2007. Ok, it’s a little more experimental than what a lot will like, but peep it, and don’t deny its fresh, and its real hip hop art. Would love to hear thoughts on the above if anyone can be bothered

Interesting take Alex. Of course, hip hop is primarily a story-teller’s artform, so there will always be an element of that. However, I see today’s hip hop images affecting the urban ghetto as much as they are commenting on it. Sure, whatever is happening to black America will always be hip hop, but these days hip hop also does a large part to shape black America. I don’t think a lot of MCs have acknowledged that transfer of power yet. That’s not to say now they have some great responsibility to use it wisely, but it would go a long way to creating more interesting and positive messages if the artists were thinking about these relationships.

you want the new hip hop, here it is, d trizz and dirtty black, this is not an advertisement, seriously check us out, you will have plenty of articles to write soon my friend……d trizz

I see the comparison across the musical spectrum. I grew up listening to Punk in the late 70’s early 80’s. In some ways, Punk came from the same roots as Rap, obviously setting aside race. It was urban, generally poor kids who were fed up with the Bullshit and wanted something new and exciting, stripped down. Hip Hop and Punk were about using simple beats,and experimentation to drive an often times hard message. They both also began in the Underground.

Rap used to be about the words and beat, not the image. Same with Punk. The “image” came naturally and it only became derivative after money started pouring in.

Today what passes as “punk” is laughable, pathetic and a complete marketing creation. Punk cannot be commercial. Punk is anti-commercial. Commercialization is what helped kill Punk, and it’s killing Rap as well.

The person who wrote this needs a brain transplant. To be as narrowminded as to generalize and stereotype all hip hop as “sucking” is a stunning display of potent ignorance.

Commercial rap music

And furthermore, true fans of the genre and supporters of the revolution will find the music. It seems like you’re saying that it’s hard to be involved in the underground hip hop scene and that mainstream artists should transform into more pure lyricism. Well duh mainstream sucks. It always will. We can’t change that. But it is virtually effortless to be apart of the underground.

Powdered Water, the mainstream doesn’t necessarily suck. There are many isntances in American popular music history where mainstream music was also good music (1960’s folk, 90’s grunge, etc…) However, when you have such a huge disconnect between the popular representation of a genre and the underground, I believe you have a real problem in the health of a genre.

I think that soon enough the art form will clarify itself once people get tired of the shit thats out there now. Its meaning and persuasion will evolve once everyone gets a little more educated and decides that they want something a little deeper and more substantial than the generic mainstream crap.I predict it will be a main part of our society , welcomed by open arms.
But like any birth it will go through trials and tribulations before its true purpose in art is defined.
The shitheads behind the desk are the problem.They convince the consumers of what they want.
Take a look at jazz and rock. Fifty years ago it was the devils music, only for the sinful underground freaks and demons. Today its become defined in its applications to our world and our need to just feel good for a few minutes.
People are afraid of the unknown , even myself at the top of these comments got educated on how serious people are about this being an art form and not just a platform to sound cool.It led to an exchange with J-RO that brought us both out on top with understanding. Understanding is key. So if you look back on musical history we would all probably lighten up a little, cause with understanding you loose fear of the unknown. And acceptance comes easier. And you accept something , understanding it becomes a hell of alot easier.
More intelligent and beautiful things have a way of making they’re way to the front. I beleive that rap has only gotten started.

I agree micky. I can only hope we’ll see an upswing in the quality of hip hop in the near future. It makes sense, given the history.

Three words: Check the underground. Blackalicious, Lyrics Born, Quasimoto, El-P, etc. etc. are all still making great music.

You, Sir J-Ro, are my hero of the day!!!

woah there….dancehall? a hip-hop genre? i’m sorry, but i agreed with the majority of your article but dancehall doesn’t have it’s roots in hip-hop and is most certainly not a sub-genre of it

The truth is that hip hop is not dead nor is it even close to dying. the problem is, is that hip hop executives don’t understand what hip hop is and throw these shit artists like young joc or young jeezy or little ricky or little wayne or little whatever at the mainstream because they are riding the “dirty south” wave and because lil john made so much money lil wayne can too. Its that kind of thinking that turns people away from rap. there are so many artists out there, both on the east and west coast scenes that are not mainstream because they decided that they want the artistic control over their music , and the best hip hop and rap is being made by these artists. Examples can only point to people like the blue scholars, common market, Andre Nickatina (who’s been around since the 80’s), immortal technique and others (I can give you a SUBSTANTIAL list if you’d like). if you don’t know who these artists are then EDUCATE your self.

just look at Blue Scholars, whose new cd BAYANI, will be probably the best hip hop cd in 2007(its filled with amazing beats and lyrical prose about socially relevant themes), yet because of their decision to start their own media company, will probably never make the top 100.

the failure of the record industry to identify talent and bring them to the national level is absurd. there is so much money to be made in hip hop music, and YOU DONT EVEN HAVE TO DEVELOP any talent, its already out there.

US hip hop is becoming far too generic, hence the drop in sales. It is becoming too commercial, and all about money. No thought is put into lyrics, like it use to be.
UK hip hop should be payed more interest to in coming years, IMO it beats all US generic hip hop.
Ones like Taskforce, foreign beggars, Mud family are ones to check out, they should never die

WELL PEOPLE THE SHOW IS OVER. Rap and hip - hop sucks. Why does it suck you ask? Well every rapper seems like they are saying the same things. I believe if rap and Hip - Hop want to surive they should fourm one bigg ass grp. That way people will not have to waste thier money on garbage. The last rapper/hip-hop artist that people rember in 10 years is Enienm and all the greats that came before him. No on will remember Paul Wall, Mike Jones, Jadkiss, Young -Joc , a bunch crappy female rappers. The list goes on and on unfortanlty. Even once good rapper like Jay -Z as gone soft on the public lol. People already getting tired of RB wannbes and crappy rappers trying to making muisc together. The main down fall rap and hip -hop is not the fault of the artist. But the fault of the industry that has explioted rap , hip -hop to the fullest lol. I think pop is starting to become more street credailble then rap/hip-hop lol . The only way it can remerge if its stops completlty for while. Then comes out with somthing raw and fresh staright from the ghettoes it came from. Lol if it does surive the only people that will listen to it ingornat African- Americans.

hey man good article.. like you, i look for complexity and artestry? in music.. i highly recommend a group called the Blue Scholars..

i just read post 118… listen to that man.

It´s an okay article. But the status quo for hip hop began long ago.
Telling people to make art instead of repeating hollow phrases sounds good but questions are: a)do people care? and b)where do they generate art from if they didn`t seem to be able to do it before?
If you ask me it´s all lies in the root of the capitalist system itself (which is stuck and more destructive than productive).
Hip hop always reflected capitalist competition (maybe more drastically than any other type of music). It was never just “art”. But it is right that, as much the economic system itself does this, the too obvious things are coming to surface.
I don`t think it can be possible to “help” hip hop overcoming it´s inner problems if society doesn`t change. But I believe that there´s always been hip hop artist that didn`t give a damn how much they sell, if they had to do things not from the heart.
The mass of people in this system doesn`t think. Those who do are (in different ways) not appealing to the masses. But who cares (besides the bigwigs)?
There´s artists like Roots Manuva, Jurassic Five, DJ Krush, Spectre, The Principles, MF Doom, EmCee Lynx, Dilated Peoples, International Criminal and much more in hip hop that just don`t sell their asses for a quick buck. There is an underground that´s doing “art”.
People just have to get into it - but as long as a stupefying media-machine has the last word about that, it just won`t happen grandscale. And as long as we`re living in this damn system it is better that way. Cause large success is not very helpful for art under this societies circumstances.
For those who care - just open you`re eyes! For those who don`t - just stay where you are…

@DJ Phoney

I reject the argument that capitlist success and art making are mutually exclusive. Capitalist success is an effect of popular art, and I feel that it is possible to create real art that resonates with so many people that you enjoy monetary rewards.

The problem comes in when you go for money first and art second, which is what I believe is happening with hip hop. Hip hop was a potent mix of politics and art in the 80’s and 90’s that resonated with a lot of people. However, today’s hip hop underground seems more focused on making money than making art. I’m arguing for an underground scene that takes a longer view, realizing that if they create potent art, they will eventually enjoy capitalist success, not just for one “breakout” artist but for the entire scene.

First I hate to be the one to bring up conspiracy theories and second I’m afraid I’m too tired to try to find the evidence somewhere but I think something may be helping to add to the problem.

There is software out there that qualifies music with a bunch of factors and then plots it according to its popularity. With this software anyone can plug in a song and be able to make a good bet as to whether it will be able to be a hit. I fear that record companies may be using (abusing) this software. This is why many of the songs that we have been hearing in the past five to ten years seem hollow, because they have been chosen mostly because they fill an objective requirement. They have no soul (or are atleast unconcerned about that part).

I agree completely with J-Ro. Now i may not listen to underground rap but i do listen to the old school g-funk like Warren G and old Dr. Dre. Back then it wasn’t totally flashy, but about livin in the ghetto. Not all music is stale tho. Heavy Metal is still kickin ass, it just lays really low compared to the mainstream.

The article was amazing and the discussion was great. Its been enjoyable to read. Thanks J-RO.

One of the things that I have to bring up is first a question, then an opinion: what is the difference between society now and in the early 80s as hiphop was being created. Both you have Reaganomics and W.Bushanomics wreaking havoc in urban communities. But in one case the success (economic) of rap music is appealing to young people.

Before hiphop was created as a way to offer kids a safe alternative, to have fun in a community setting. The community is viewed as the solution. Folks weren’t doing it to get rich. Now they have seen people get rich and “Whoomp! There it is”

There is a scene in the documentary “Beyond Beats and Rhymes” where the director walks on a group of MCs freestyling, waiting for a big Rap Contest … typical themes, guns, who is the toughest, etc. He asks them a few questions and then they freestyle TOTALLY DIFFERENTLY “CONSCIOUS” “DEEP” “SOPHISTICATED” whatever you want to call it. They were playing a role, sambo’ing to get that deal. To make it, to get that money.

One factor that has only been hinted at so far, is that hiphop has been taken from a COMMUNITY art form to an INDIVIDUAL art form. Who are the artists accountable to? The corporation or the people you live next door to? As Tribe Said “Industry Rule #4080 Record Company People are SHADY”… plus many poets today are going into SPOKEN WORD and SLAM POETRY instead of rapping.

@Jesse

Whether you’re right or not about this conspiracy, it doesn’t really matter. Radio audiences have been falling since the 1996 tellecomunications act and radio mass consolidation. Radio stations have realized that packaged playlist and canned DJs just don’t work. Not that they are going in a complete 180, but I think a lot of the experiments they’ve been playing around with over the past 10 years have backfired and they are changing their formats.

@namastebrown

I totally agree that this is a signifigant angle, and I think it plays a part in other genres too, as the example I pointed out here of rock and folk in the 60’s shows. Good music scenes are about the scene, not the star. Hip hop was as political as rock in the 60’s and the movement around each was just as community driven. What is interesting though, is rock never really lost that. The garage band and the hometown scene are still parts of rock and roll legend, and even the stars still look like they live with their parents (see Nirvana and all that damn flannel in the grunge scene). Hip hop has always been about uplifting people and communities, but it is interesting to see how uplifting has been equated with consumerist success and conspicuous consumption.

Yeah, I ain’t really feelin’ da hiphop lately. It’s all BS talk about hoods, hos, gangstas, hatas, money, bitches, and all dat… Come on, all dem 2006-2007 new artists sound da fucken same … and what’s worse … is that they’re fake … they do it for the dough … for da paper … wut dey rap about dont sound lyk it comes from da heart lyk it used to when hiphop was alive …

Check out the UK Hip Hop scene which has so many talented MC’s and producers. Over in the UK they don’t get much tv play or radio play it really an underground thing. I have some excellent mix cd’s and albums of various UK artists old skool and new skool and unlike the US scene there is no decline in musical standard after a certain period,(i.e 1997 in the US with the rise of Puff Daddy).Albums to check out

Klashnekoff & Joe Buhdha - Lionheart: Tussle With The Beast

Braintax - Biro Funk, Panorama

Phi Life Cypher - Millennium Metaphoars

Roots Manuva - Brand New Second Hand, Awfully Deep, Run Come Save Me.

The Herbaliser - Take London

Yungun & Mr Thing - Grown Man Business.

Check out all these albums and thats only a small portion check em out you won’t be dissapointed.

hip hop is alive, you’re just not looking hard enough. don’t expect music to come to you, it doesn’t work like that.

go listen to Murs and Atmosphere.

The problem with rap rnb and hiphop

is that none of it seems to be progressive im 20 and its all been the same. No kind of revolution.

No kind of innovation.

No kind of Soul.

dont get me wring i dont have rap or rnb but it lacks some kind of depth. im not saying it has always been this way. But at least rock had Grunge and Punk revolutions or Eras rather.

The style was totally diffrent.

I mean maybe this is the kind or “revolution” the grene was heading for. Predominently.

It needs abit ,ore spice, more Stevie wonder.

Nope,
Hip Hop Is Dying, AND It Sucks

Since everybody can find albums for free and all the albums are leaked everywhere, Hip hop and rnb artists donb’t sell ANYMORE
Only white artists like Aguilera, Timberlake, Fergie, Thicke still selling HUGE NOW

Black artists are fucked.

The game is over for black people

HAHAHAHAHA

I couldn’t agree with this article more. It’s really sad to see the course that hip hop has taken. I love rap but except for a few artist out now like Common and Kayne, it doesn’t mean anything anymore to me. I just don’t understand it anymore. I remember when I was thriteen and I heard the 36 Chambers album for the first time, it spoke to me and my reality. It meant something to me and most kids living in the hood. What happened to that kind of rap. Hip hop is so commericalized now that it has lost its authenticity and otherness.

Alwayz I turn on my TV to muzick-senders I hear thiz bullshit like G-Unit, 50 Cent!
They Producers are all cheaper than a piece of shit - alwayz this stupid synth-hand-clap-beats in the background, where the real DJ at?
Thier lyircs have NO FLOW, rappin’ about fuckin’ hoes having fast cars and “bling-bling”, fuck that shit! In reality this niggaz are loosers, STUDIO-GANGSTAZ!
And everybody who likes Lil’ Jon or tha eastside boys are gays, these pussys scream in the mic, like they are in the army, the lyrics are worse az any motherphukkka!

These guys (G-unit and so on) just care about money, just silly suckers, created by thier Record Label!
And fuck r ‘n’ b-Hip-Hop, with that “wanna be gangsta hoez” like Rihanna or shakira- they are all god damn’ poofmuffins!
If I meet ever the game an I have a 9 Mil in my hand, I fuck this bitch!
Look at 2Pac (I would change his name to 6 pack and have a nice afternoon) in 1992 he was a real undergound hero but later he goes to the media, he sucks, he sucks real hard!

I ask U niggaz, where are the true headz at???

Otis Redding, Sam & Dave , Booker T and the MGs , Isaac Hayes,Marvi Gaye, REAL musicians with soul and flow

Great article, truly the industry has gone south because there is no substance in what is being promoted and created today.

AAAAAAAAAAAAMEN
halelujah

I can’t believe how people have nothing to but analyze and down talk something that has no importance. Ok so you think hip-hop is dead. WHOPPI DOO! As a society once we start looking at the bigger problems and not petty ones similar to this subject. I know we will be better off. This is absolutely ridiculous, You seem like a very smart and intelligent individual. If you took the time you have taken to analyze this subject, and analyze something like the war on terrorism. Wow! would be the outcome guaranteed. People put to much energy in to music, Music is not our creator. Why is it so important? If you don’t like what you hear then shutup and make your own noise. Music is something to just entertain us and isn’t a guide to help us make life decisions. Get a life……..

Hmm…a quick read of the other articles on this site would show you that we put thought into all kinds of things, terrorism included.

Hmm, the article seems to be specifically discussing commercial hip hop and its downfall based on Nielsen Media industry reports…
Firstly I’d have to question the credibility of that report as it is actually a violation to post a Nielsen report in a public website, and also, in order to obtain a report you must either be a business who has suscribed to the service or a university (student).
Anyhow, even if those statistics are authentic - in this case sales do not determine the actual popularity of something. There are many factors to be taken into consideration such as: the present saturation of genre in mainstream mediums, downloads of music as a whole, past trends (that report only lists two previous years!) etc.

Secondly, one of your primary ideas in this report is that hip hop sucks because of a decline in sales. There are no stats in regards to hip hop sales on that page? I saw rap and r&b. However, even if there were figures that indicated a decline in hip hop record sales that doesn’t mean it sucks. It just means people aren’t buying it.

I love a band called animal collective and I haven’t bought any of their cds. That doesn’t mean they suck. Maybe all the listeners of hip hop are downloading albums?

Finally,
there is still great new eccentric hip hop being released today; it just doesn’t recieve much airplay on radio or television. There’s a lovely label by the name of ‘Ninja Tune’ I think people who believe hip hop is dead should check out.

I am so happy that hip hop is dead. It always has been AND always will be a shit form of music. A bunch of gorilla’s jumping around screaming shit into a microphone …

I work in huge nightclubs throughout South Africa and there isn’t a hip hop sound to be hear anymore. Thank fucking god! Back to funky, progressive and electro house.. Aah, I see a bright future again in the music industry …

^ Hmm…a little uninformed and racist, don’t you think?

Note that I just want to comment on your comparison of the two songs. I’m neutral on hip-hop or other genres since I like them all.

You’re spot on re: your lyrics comparison of the two songs for artistic value.

>but I would argue that if you put “CREAM’s” excellent
>lyrics under “Push It Baby’s” beat, you’d still have a
>dud

I disagree with this part of your analysis. I had not heard either song before reading this article.

Push It Baby just had this “catchy” beat and riffs as well as fill-in vocals that are more melodic and have a wider appeal. On the other hand despite the wider texture employed by CREAM, the monotonous rap like vocal delivery and the same hook over and over ruins the tempo. I’d like to hear a remix of CREAM for sure.

Largely I think it just boils down to personal preference between the 2 songs. Extrapolating them to the state of hip hop may be a stretch. People’s tastes change with time as you have so accurately described.

No hip-hop aint dead or dying..it’s just changing…as it always was Elvis on the other hand…

My roommate in college plays hip hop all the damn time and it pisses me off. How people enjoy music with lyrics stating “I was gettin some head, gettin gettin some head” or perhaps “now just walk it out just walk it out blah blah” and even Lil’ Jon ramblin in his stupid songs over and over fucking over is way beyond my understanding. Ok, so I am not quite familiar with old underground hip hop and even if I were, I probably wouldn’t like it at all. Where is the emotion? The build, the tension and release, where is it? Unlike trance or IDM that I listen to, hip hop has no defining musical structure or quality other than simply being “catchy” to the low life society with no taste in music at all. The music is simple, a breakbeat with lyrics and a little bit of background noise, say childlike background vocals. Utter rubbish. I agree with Dale, thank god hip hop is dead, and hopefully pop and rock as well. But then again, when IDM or trance raise in popularity due to the supposed death of other genres, they too will begin to suck. Therefore, thank god that there are people who actually enjoy inferior music.

Time has a way of correcting things. Hip hop was hijacked by people who didn’t care about art or decency. They only cared about money. I personally have not listened to black radio consistently for about 8 years now. I prefer positive music. I prefer real music. Whatever the genre, at least let it be real, played by real musicians!! I work out at Lifetime Fitness. On the lifetime channel they play all genres of music, but Hip hop is very limited. Why? I think it is because of the lyrics. Plain and simple, the lyrics are ridiculously grotesque. Who in the world wants their children listening to it?

Our brains record everything we hear. It just takes the right thing to trigger the file we store it in. Ever been riding down the road and hear a song that you have not heard in a decade? The lyrics come right back don’t they! We just have to remember that the old saying “Garbage in, garbage out,” is not true. The Garbage stays in. We can fill our head with positives, or negatives. But whatever we fill our heads with, becomes us. It is with us forever!!

I’m happy that Hip hop is changing. It is long overdue.

I’m loving this article. It’s totally “on point.” To me commercial hip hop has been at a complete stand still for about 10… maybe 15 years. It’s just going absolutely nowhere. And yes people always focus on the lyrics. That kills me. To me lyrics are a very small part of music. It’s the music that sucks.

and i never thought, that we was gonna see each othe. Essa Morty.

One of my biggest gripes about hip hop is the lack of progress that genre has seen. The only reason it has lasted as long as it has is because it’s been adopted by young kids and dopes with no real sense of music. Every previous form of music from Rock to Jazz, Folk or Classical has changed and evolved. Those evolutions sometimes sucked horribly but the evolution was necessary to sustain the genre. If we were to scale Hip Hop’s progress on on football field, it would be about 5 yards from it’s own goal line. Unfortunately there isn’t a ref around to flag them for delay of game. The music is stagnant and repetetive because it’s made mostly by uncreative people looking for a quick way to make money so they can flaunt their horrible taste to the rest of the world. That these people have been patronized for so long is a sad statement about this country and what we truly value. Fortunately for Hip Hop artist’s, America has a genuine lack of good taste and usually loves to idolize the least creative, vacuous entertainers that stumble into the spotlight. There was a time when this country encouraged the music of geniuses like Muddy Waters, Charlie Parker and Miles Davis but today most are content to tolerate second and third rate artists whose only goals are to pad their wallets with cash from the musically impaired.

Right on Raoul.

Sam and Dave, B.B., Jareau, Herbie Habcock, Roland kirk,Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee.

if hip hop is so bad why do you keep listening to it
all you have to do is stop even listening to it if you
have such a problem with it and this is suppose to be
about hip hop but you all put R&B in the mix and if you
want to go there with that, if you listen to a Marvin
Gaye song he is talking about sex in his songs but no
one saw a problem with it and you have to think about it
people are reasonable for there own actions so you
cant just put all hip hop artist in the same name because
common is still in the game and he tell the truth about
the world in all his songs Kanye paints pictures in your
head that you can relate to so if you have such a big
problem with hip hop why listen to it you must like it
if you listen to it so much bye

I mean, I do like hip hop. I do listen to it. Marvin Gaye and Common are great. But surely you can agree there is a lot of crap out there, no?

‘Hip-hop’ is an inapporpriate moniker. A better label would be ‘ganster tunes’.

It depends on the listener. Some people like hiphop, other like metal, another like pop. Each music fans, blame other funs. Rock fans blame hiphop fans. Hiphop fans blame pop fan. It depend on yours.

Sorry, one thing I forgot to mention as well…

We should encourage these youngsters to listen to other music as well, thus the reason we have so many sub-genres. It helps to enhance the listening experience overall, especially when you can combine elements from other forms of musical art. I don’t they don’t do enough of that either.

MannikDaraFan, interesting views indeed. I have a complex relationship with art and message. I don’t want to tell artists what to talk about. I want my art to be challenging, intersting, unexpected. It can even hurt, or be vulgar. That’s art.

So I hesitate to call for a return to music with a message. Just imposing a message on today’s music doesn’t really do anything, it’s still bad art, which is the point of this article. Instead, I’d rather see a return to art. With that, we’ll get more interesting messages.

Great Article - But Common sense really - Hip Hop IS going thru its glossy disco faze ,with everyone scrambling over each other to grab a handful of cash before the bubble bursts…But its cool,Just as when people talk about the electric guitar and the thousands upon thousands of people who have tried to imitate him, the name Jimi Hendrix MEANS something eg: staying true to your artistic integrity - and no amount of glossy videos ,hype and posing has knocked him off his throne.THATS what REAL HIP HOP is:Being True To Yourself and not being a Sheep Respect due:Afrika Bambaata/RUN DMC/Mantronik/Edan/DJ Shadow/Goldie/P.E/B.D.P

You can check out my tunage at myspace.com/kramizm……no Bling,no hype,no polished up sheep music just me having FUN. and ME being ME.Remember when Hip Hop had that guys?…

Seriously. I ALWAYS said that hip-hop sucks now.

As a person who has hip hop in his family(My cousin is Rick Rock of California “Hyphy” fame), I can’t help but turn away every time I hear one of those annoying songs on the radio. I even stayed away from the entire genre for years. Fortunately, artists like Madlib, Five Deez, and MF Doom have rekindled my love of the art. If these and other artists can get some kind of airplay, I’d certainly appreciate it.

I agree with almost everything. The Underground Scene is making a come back as we speak, and True, Real Hip Hop is pushing to revive that pure artform that once thrived. It is so hard to bring Real Hip Hop to the public eye when money hungry business men own the radio waves and the public broadcasting. If you want a taste of daily underground Hip Hop suscribe to the Indie feed Podcast that itunes has.

I can’t believe how people have nothing to but analyze and down talk something that has no importance. Ok so you think hip-hop is dead. WHOPPI DOO! As a society once we start looking at the bigger problems and not petty ones similar to this subject. I know we will be better off. This is absolutely ridiculous, You seem like a very smart and intelligent individual. If you took the time you have taken to analyze this subject, and analyze something like the war on terrorism. Wow! would be the outcome guaranteed. People put to much energy in to music, Music is not our creator. Why is it so important? If you don’t like what you hear then shutup and make your own noise. Music is something to just entertain us and isn’t a guide to help us make life decisions. Get a life……..

that is not true you just dumb and don’t know what you listen to is real and make sence.!What the hell kind of music do you listen to? You probably listen to dumb ass music but yeah get back at me!

This whole concept of “TRUE” or “REAL” hip hop has become a revisionist view of hip-hop perpetuated by generally middle to upper class white kids. These kids over the last ten to fifteen years have started often disregarding hip-hop that doesn’t portray life in the ghetto the way they want to imagine it (the way Wu-Tang portrayed it). Why is hip hop the only genre held to this standard?

Hip hop is a genre, like most music but ESPECIALLY historically black genres, such as soul and R&B, whose first intention is to move your hips. People who complain about popular hip hop today “not saying anything” are being very selective with history. Did “Rapper’s Delight” say anything about ghetto life? Did “The Breaks” say anything about drugs being pushed into the neighborhood? Did anything by the hip hop pioneers before Sugarhill Gang and Kurtis Blow say anything about escalating murder rates in the inner cities? Not really. It largely music to bring together a neighborhood to have a good time. These songs were vehicles for people to dance, just as today’s hip-hop is.

Your gripe is with pop music in general, not exclusively hip-hop. I actually find myself more offended by the rock music I hear on the radio today than I am by the hip-hop. That music is saying even less than rappers and they are largely getting a free pass. Why is that? Their genre’s history is significantly longer than hip-hop’s, and their music has been an infinitely more powerful social force than hip hop. So why are we sitting back and letting bands like Nickelback and Daughtry rule the charts? Why aren’t we complaining about them? Do we figure that genre has regressed to the point of no return while we can still salvage hip-hop? Or do we well-to-do white people want to make popular hip hop return to point which never really existed in the first place?

El hip-hop está muriendo y renaciendo de formas diferentes. Nos guste o no, es ley de vida.

music in general is just crappy these days.
amazingly, I am now finding stuff from the 70’s and 80’s that is great!
people during those times were really trying to create unique stuff.
same thing with music videos. when is the last time you saw a music video that made you erally user your brain?

For the most part, hip-hop and a lot of music in general in the United States is head-bangingly awful. The same crap dominates the radio airwaves and the TV stations, devoid of any heart, soul, intellect, or art. These idiots will be pretty much forgotten in a few years, and in my mind, the rap that was out in the 80s, early 90s will stand the test of time more than what’s being put out today.

The problem is that the real good hip-hop, whether it’s old-school or current rap that’s underground or from other parts of the world, is pushed to the side by these money hungry corporate executives who want us to listen to the mainstream crap that’s been awful for a good 8-10 years. It’s like the disco era of the 70s and the hair band era of the 80s. While I like those two genres, people got tired of that crap. Disco records were being shot and burned, people got sick of the repetitiveness of hair metal. This is what’s happening to rap right now. Unless a savior comes along and brings something new and innovative to get rap back to where it used to be, the genre will just keep running itself into the ground with all this bullcrap.

Although it won’t be like the Golden Age of Rap, it will be more tolerable and better listening.

I agree that hiphop is dieing but you cant forget about artists like Lupe Fiasco and Kanye west that bring new things to the game. i cant believe no-one has mentionedd them yet!

His man called said “your time might be now”
They played your freestlye over “Wipe me down”
They played it two times
Said it might be crowned
As the best thing out the H-TOWN in a while
He pickd up his son with a great big smile
Rapped every single word to the newborn child
Then he put em down and went back to the kitchen
Put on another beat and got back to the mission
Of get his momma out the hood
Put her somewhere in the woods
Keep his lady lookin good
Have her rolling like she should
Show his homies its a way
Other than that flippin Yay
Bail his homie outta jail
Put a lawyer on his case
Throw a concert for the school
Show the soldiers thats its cool
Throw some candy on the cadi
Chuck the duece and act a fool
Man it feels good when it happens like that
Two days from goin back to sellin crack…………yessir

“LUPE FIASCO HIP HOP SAVED MY LIFE”

The question of art v. pandering is as old as American popular music. The artistic innovation, like you mentioned, tends to come out of underground artist who then jump into the mainstream. The industry itself usually throws up fluff or cover versions of innovative tracks by more “palatable” artists with more appeal. One thinks of Elvis.

Also, the artistic quality of rap, or any music for that matter, lies on a continuum. Kanye’s work ends up in clubs with people ignoring the innovative aspect, either lyrically or musically (Few club listeners realize that Kanye’s rhyming of ‘Apollonia’ and ‘Isotoners’ is off-the-wall, by lyrical standards, or that he borrows from Daftpunk.).

No worries, Jason. Rap will continue to go in strange (and sometimes unartistic) directions. Hyphy, from the Bay Area, is starting to get noticed nationwide, usually through college kids from NorCal, and it centers around using Ecstasy(’Thizz’) and dancing on top of moving cars (Ghostriding or sydeshows).

But, for every Keek Da Sneak or Mistah FAB, there’s a Kanye in the wings, and perhaps it’s The Seminal’s job to expose those people.

Alright first things first, and that’s for the idiots going around hating on rap that either 1. hasn’t listened to one rap song a day in their life, or 2. bases their close minded ignorant opinions on the stuff they only hear on the radio, need to refrain from posting in this topic. Now, I bet most of you are going to hate me for saying this, but I actually love mainstream rap, but only to a certain extent. To put this more plain and simple, I respect the likes of Jay-Z, Ludacris, T.I., and Cash Money; more specifically Lil Wayne, and can’t tolerate any of that Crunk or Snap nonsense what so ever. However, just cause I listen to some mainstream rappers doesn’t mean I spit on the likes that respresents true hip hop such as Wu-tang, KRS-1, Common, and so on. Heck, I think I own more CDS that are considered TRUE HIP HOP than mainstream rap. But what I think needs to be done here is to not kill all of mainstream rap entirely like what grunge did to gay ass hair metal in the 90s, but the whole hip hop genre just needs to mix it up a bit, play some good underground acts once in a while and give artists such as Common, Talib Kweli, The Roots, Jurassic Five, Pharoah Monche, etc.. somemore exposure so that people who criticizes hip hop can see and understand that not everything in hip hop is about blings, girls, and new dance moves.

Your article was very well put and I was pretty entertained at your comparisons between Wu-tang Clan and Pretty Ricky. However the real reason why hip hop sales have been down is not because it sucks, but a little thing I’d like to call downloading. Yep, wake up everybody, can you honestly ask yourselves when was the last time you actually bought a cd, because now with the easy access of the internet and sites like Limewire and Napster, the masses have figured that they would be cheap and download music rather than be real appreciative and loyal fans and buy the artist’s album, thus causing a major drop on sales. Now I won’t lie, because I do have friends that do this and I will sometimes ask them to help me download some songs, but I only ask them to help me download songs from artists that I can see will just be another one hit wonder or the album isn’t just worth buying, which brings us to the number of talentless rappers that we have polluting the rap industry right now such as Soulja Boy, Hurricane Chris, and other names that you won’t even remember the next day but were able to succeed through one single. But not to say that this is what rap has to offer only, we did have that 50 cent vs. Kanye West album competition last year, and not to forget Nas’ Hip Hop is dead album and more recently Jay-Z’s American Gangster album. The thing is, we need rappers that have proven to be survivors in the rap game to help bring rap back to a good direction and furthermore, gettng the masses to wanna buy their albums instead of just downloading one particular song. As far as R&B goes, I would say there are more recognized and unforgettable talents in this genre than rap right now, as we have the likes of Rihanna, Beyonce, Alicia Keys, Ashanti, and Mary J. Blige who makes music that their fans would wanna buy their albums. On tha real, what needs to be done here is this downloading phenomena and try to start steering music fans of any kind of genre to stop being cheap asses and start purchasing albums.

ok you know what, i find it kinda ignorant that you’re completely trashing pretty ricky and all of mainstream rap just cause it’s not your kind of flavor in rap, and because of this also doesn’t make pretty ricky another talentless group! you compare wu-tang clan to pretty ricky and you fail to understand one thing, that pretty ricky is meant for the more pop friendly crowd who wants to hear more pg type friendly songs rather than the usual growing up in the ghettos and hardcore stuff that you would hear from wu-tang! don’t get me wrong tho, i like the clan, but you gotta realize that there’s the real hip hop, gangsta type crowds that will listen to stuff like wu-tang, and you’ll have the younger generation that’ll listen to artists like pretty ricky, bow wow, or soulja boy! artists from the pop rap genre or crunk/snap crowd is just symbolizing that the rap culture is bringing something new to the table, and while the majority will disagree with their subject matters, you gotta admit that you can only listen to rappers talk about struggling and gang bangin’ before it starts to get old, and the same thing can be said about pop rap too, but the only difference is is that pop rap is something you can enjoy, dance to, and make you happy, and tho lyrically it’s not as talented as wu-tang, you can admit that one song from hurricane chris will get ya movin’! so nuff of this eliminate the mainstream rap or that we need a nirvana of rap junk, we dont need to go down the same road that rock went!

Oh please. I fail to see what some people here are writing. Don’t bother posting here if you hated the genre in the first place.

Although the underground may be starting to look interesting, I can safely say that what the majority of people that listen to the mainstream rap have no taste in good music. It is all lacking in ambition, talent, flow, skill, and most important of all, putting art over cash. Guys like 50 Cent, Akon, Lil Wayne, and Soulja Boy are doing nothing good to the genre, they are just taking it down just for ignorant people to like. These people probably don’t even know that rap/hip-hop existed before their time and how much better it used to be. Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five, Run DMC, Beastie Boys, De La Soul and A Tribe Called Quest were all good rap groups that helped evolve the genre, bringing something new to the table with real music. These days, there is hardly anything out there that’s new. The only good stuff that seems to come out is music that sounds like it was from the 70s, 80s or 90s, only that I feel that the underground rappers seem to have that feeling of nostalgia, reminicising of better days when rap was real and had a message. Hip-Hop was never about having horrible lyrics, awful beats, and the purpose of only being there to make millions just so they can spoon feed that crap to the ignorant mainstream fans.

So I pretty much lost touch with the genre itself, and I mostly just play 80s and 90s songs from my iPod. It’s much better than to try to search for something good on the radio or MTV.

Rap has always sucked IMO. I don’t care about whether these potty-mouthed idiots have anything to say or not, it still doesn’t make it music. Sampling is just a pathetic excuse to steal a piece of music because you can’t find a way to play it on some instrument yourself. I.E.: plagiarism. And I also can’t stand rapping, it drives me stark raving mad!

^^^ That’s nice, but obviously no one gives a shit since the original article was about good hip hop vs. mainstream rap, not “explain why you hate rap”. So unless you’re here to debate between the two, go back to that whack ass shit called rock, cause we all know screaming about the devil is such good and positive music correct?!

I don’t give a flying fuck about what the lyrical content is. All that matters is that the music is good, and metal is good music IMO! And there are rock and “metal” that also incorporate cRAPPED vocals, and they suck ass as well IMO

Hey Krull:

I listen to that drivel you call rap and you know what I found out while listening to it, I don’t give a flying fuck what some mook who likes death metal thinks of rap because some mook ass opinion isn’t going to influence me one bit. Rock died with jerry Lee Lewis, wake the fuck up. All this other rock is built of race music of the late 1950’s. Rock bit rap to start, don’t belive me read a book on the history of rock music. It’s another example of the white man making profit off of the African American culture. Beyond that go fuck yourself and I yearn the day I can punch your mouth loose while my wallet is tied to my jeans via a chain. - joey

Jason,

You wrote this article to create a bees nest. I take offense to the notion that hip hop is dead. It’s out there you just have to know where to look. I know you know where the true shit is, so why write this? You knew what you were doing here. You got your hits, but you gave morons a forum to blast rap without any merit behind their arguments. I don’t like it……. but you have me going to now so I think you’ve succeeded in what you aimed to do.

Jason Rosenbaum says  ::  February 8th, 2008 @ 1:40 pm EST
This is probably true, though I think my point stands. You can always find good music if you look close enough. That’s not the point I was trying to make. To me, things get most interesting when art and pop coincide.
In the 90s, you had a period of time when hip hop was not only extremely popular, but also real artistic music. That doesn’t happen often. We had it with rock in the 60s, jazz in the 20s, etc…
So, my point was hip hop lost its edge not because of the usual suspects (too much commercialism, too much violence, bad language, whatever…) but because lots of hip hoppers stopped making art.
Now, of course, there is still plenty of art in hip hop form out there, no question. But my argument is that only when there is a critical mass of artistic music does it make the transition to popular music. Those at the top of these movements (think The Beatles, 2Pac, etc…) synthesize the art they see in the scene around them. Not enough art, nothing to synthesize, and you get commercial crap.
So, for people like you and me, we can find the music we’re looking for cause we know how to look for it. But we’ve lost that pop/art synergy, and that’s a shame in my view.
Reply to Jason Rosenbaum  ::  Click to quote this comment

Are you suggesting that the Beatles and 2Pac are good examples of art/pop synergy? I couldn’t disagree more if this is the case. They are commercial crap. When Tupac was at his height I never listened to him. Much like when the Beatles were #1 people who truly liked, knew, and breathed rock music were jamming to Chuck Berry and Led. In the early 90’s it was Boot Camp, Wu, and Tribe. East coast bias, nope. That right there was/is hip hop. You put one rhyme on anyone of those albums next to a Tupac verse and it’s not even close. People liked Tupac because they saw him as a true blue son of a bitch and I can respect that. To me, if I am reading your point right (please correct me if I am not), this art/synergy is a good thing. To me it is anything but. That would mean Master P was more complimentary to hip hop than was Slick Rick because Ricky D was in the game prior to this so called synergy. You’re right though that the game is watered down. I’m leaving work now……..my head is spinning. I think I lost my point half way through maybe before that…….. Peace.

Jason Rosenbaum says  ::  February 8th, 2008 @ 2:09 pm EST
Well, take whatever example you want. I mean, the Beatles were amazingly successful throughout their career, and when they were at the height of their artistic influence (Sgt. Peppers, White Album, Revolver, etc…) they were amazingly popular. Not only that, but they led a movement. In the 60s, you’ve got more chart topping hits that I’d consider “good music” than almost any other era. That’s what makes it significant.
Same thing goes for the 90s. If you don’t love 2pac, Wu and Tribe are other great examples. KRS-ONE. Whoever. The point is these guys were on both an artistic and popular level that isn’t reached as much today. Sure, you’ve still got great artists in the game now, but the underground doesn’t have the roots to support a sustained output of popular music that’s also artistic. That’s really my basic point. You only get popular art when the underground is thriving. Hip hop’s underground, while it has pockets of gold, is by and large full of imitators, get-rich-quick-artists, and just players that aren’t that great at what they do.
Reply to Jason Rosenbaum  ::  Click to quote this comment

So, my point was hip hop lost its edge not because of the usual suspects (too much commercialism, too much violence, bad language, whatever%u2026) but because lots of hip hoppers stopped making art.

Agreed, though obviously there are exceptions in the game right now (i.e. Lupe, Ghost, the backpackers etc…)

Joey: And I don’t care about that, because I only listen to heavy metal and some hard rock. And sure, steal my wallet if you will, but one day people like you will burn in Hell for being subhuman creatures without any worth

Why doesn’t it ever surprise me that 99.99% of rap haters are fans of either rock/metal? I would like to know exactly what makes rock/metal “music” so much better than rap if lyrical content isn’t the case here, and please give me another reason other than the usual “they play instruments” when in fact there are rap artists that play instruments too, but you “hardcore and oh so rebellious” rock/metal fans never give the rappers who do play instruments credit cause they’re not apart of rock/metal. So please enlighten me, cause I’m sure I’m not the only one who sees nothing special nor superior about rock/metal, and yet the majority of you always seem to think “rock/metal rules over rap, pop, disco” and whatever else you seem to hate.

Hip-hop will surely die and, judging by the statistics, this will happen very soon. There is a simple reason for this - the whole genre has a very limited ability to evolve. Due to the lack of melody and harmony, the only significant change you can make to rap music is changing the lyrical content. But that is not enough to keep people interested. Either rap music will die out or morph into something so different that it wouldn’t be considered rap anymore.

^^^ Keep dreaming kid, rap will never die, the most that’ll happen is it’ll stop being mainstream, but even if it does, rap will still be popular despite other fads in music. It happened many times with rock, and rap is going to go through the same shit, but in the end, the genre will never die.

If rap loses its mainstream success and fails to make a comeback I will consider it dead. If mainstream rappers exist, regardless of how bad they are, the genre will get recognition. Kids aren’t going to listen to underground rap if there is no mainstream rap on the radio or in the top 20 charts. Judging from the fall in rap sales (21% in 2006 and 33% in 2007), mainstream rap will most likely die out. And if it fails to make a comeback, the genre will just become nostalgic, the underground rappers will fail to make new fans, and it will eventually die off completely.

Of course kids aren’t going to listen to underground rap regardless if there was or no mainstream rap on the radio or the top 20 charts, cause kids don’t know any better, and that’s why alot of them “think” that rappers like Bow Wow, Soulja Boy, Hurricane Chris, and others today are “such lyrical and talented rappers”. Only TRUE rap fans will keep rap alive cause we don’t depend on mainstream shit, and like I said earlier that the most that’ll happen to rap is that it’ll stop being mainstream, meaning the corporations will stop making rap the most played music worldwide and from it becoming “the fad at the moment”, but there will definitely still be songs on the radio, and if the kids don’t like it, the true rap fans will, only if it’s not bullcrap like the ones being released right now, of course those would be for the kids. I guess what I’m trying to say is rap has came a long way, in the beginning people thought it wouldn’t last, but we’re in the year 2008 now, 30 something years later and we’re still doing our thang, even if the shit out right now is disgracing hip hop, the underground will always exist, and yes, kids aren’t going to enjoy the underground stuff unless there was shit played on the mainstream, but to us loyal and dedicated fans of rap, we support underground to the fullest, and that’s why the genre will never die. It’s just like metal music, they’re hardly played in the mainstream nor do you rarely see a metal music video etc.., but metal is still around, but mostly underground, therefore, that’s still not completely dead yet, and the same is going on for rap.

What I was trying to say is that the vast majority of underground rap listeners became fans of rap music because they heard mainstream rap. Then, after they got into rap music, they found out about underground rap and started listening to that. It’s the same with metal. You will find that most people who listen to underground metal used to listen to Linkin Park or some other mainstream band like that. And mainstream metal still exists (bands like Killswitch Engage), it’s just not as popular as mainstream rock and rap, plus there is a chance that mainstream rock fans will start listening to metal due to the similarity. The point I’m trying to make is that although mainstream music is usually bad nowadays, it does serve as a bridge for kids to start listening to lesser known, better quality music. As long as mainstream rap exists, there will be a chance that kids will start listening to underground rap. But if mainstream rap dies out, and is not replaced by a new type of rap, there will be little chance of underground rappers gaining new fans. So unless the underground fans stick to it for the rest of their lives, the genre will end up with such few followers that it may as well be dead. The same thing would happen to metal if mainstream metal and rock died off.

Hip hop right now, the way I see it is going through a phase. Because people are now sick of repetative, “gangster” bullshit and posers out there, the “gangster” movement is slowly dying. Nowadays, i see more kids (likewise me too -.-) wearing apparell similar to Kanye West. This is but a “Streetwear, Sneakerhead, Hypebeast” movement. Just look at the profile of the Cool Kids, Kid Sister, Santogold, etc. Many major magazines have notice the rise of rap that doesn’t sustain to the “gangster” lifestyle. They dub this, “Hipster Rap.” Check out the recent articles in VIBE, SPIN, and BLENDER, and you can guarentee that they have noticed this new movement.(which is based around in Chicago)

Yawn
blah

yawn

blah

o yeah that was me reading this crap. of course sales are down.

our economy is near a recession.

duhhh hmmm

the new 50 cent album or Gas and food.

get real just give it some time when our economy is in the bull market.

then you’ll see

until then

YAHHHHHHHHHHHH BITCH YAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

HAHAHAHAHAHHA

The fall in hip-hop sales is far greater than in any other genre and accelerating with each passing year. Blaming the recession is just dumb. Nobody is so poor that they would have to choose between a 50 Cent album and gas and food. Hip-hop is dying because they ran out of things to talk about.

I believe that this is a well written article/ argument. I agree with what he is saying at all costs. As for the readers… people get the misconception that hip hop dance music is killing hip hop. Is that what started hip hop? Wasnt the Sugar Hill Gang’s song a dance one? People thing that hip hop is just conscience. Do some research.

thank you joe! as a fan of the hip hop type dance music, i’m tired of these real hip hop heads always criticizing our genre for bringing down real hip hop, when they don’t even know that sugarhill gang’s first single is a dance song, and is also the same single that helped introduced rap to the public! so if you real hip hop heads are going to hate any rap song that’s about dancing or clubbing, you might as well hate on the same people who helped brought rap to the music scene!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqhHUxF7qSE

a very good song from the hip hop duo Dan le Sac vs Scroobious Pip calling hip hop artists to not go for the stupid pop hit but make something worthwhile. and samples dizzee rascal’s fix up, look sharp.
best line of the song is in the chorus ‘hip hop is art, so dont make a fucking pop hit be smart.’

also check out their thou shalt always kill video. that is a great song and an ace video.

There’s a simple explaination why hip hop sales have been down for the past years, because the music industry is force feeding us all this garbage of today’s rappers who couldn’t write a decent rap song or freestyle if their life depended on it. Whatever happened to the greatest albums in rap history such as Wu-tang’s “Enter the Wu-tang (36 Chambers), Dr Dre presents the Chronic, 2pac’s “All Eyez on me”, Bone Thugs N Harmony “E 1999 Eternal”, and Outkast’s “Southernplayalisticcadillacmusik”? These were albums made by rappers who knew how to write and make unforgettable hits, all we have nowadays is some young punk who wants to teach people how to do the superman and go ya trick ya, yea, it sure took him a huge amount of talent to say ya trick ya and blah blah blah. It’s hard to swallow knowing that this is what rap has reduced to now, a bunch of young bucks trying to get money quick by making simple rhymes and catch phrases, but the people I really blame are the fucking record companies and the kids who are stupid enough to buy into this garbage. Oh well, nothing much can be done unless we bring in somebody who can actually clean things up and bring us another era like the 90s did.

Thank God for Nas, he’s the Che Guevara of rap

Fumble outta bed and stumble to the kitchen
Pour myself a cup of ambition and
Yawn and stretch and my life is a mess and
If I never make it home today, God bless

hip hop is gonna be fine
yall just gotta dig more

Wow this article is amazing..I always heard that “hip hop was dead or dying” but I never really understood why. I was thinking there’s so many hip hop artists that are huge right now producing hit after hit with hot beats thinking, “it’s not dead, what u mean!” But now I get it. You’re right. I didn’t listen to hip hop back in the day, I was a teeny bopper, lol, but I love it now and after reading this article and listening to Wu Tang and Pretty Ricky’s lyrics and beats that you had here, I understand now and totally agree with you. All it is today is the bling, the green, and the girls. That’s it. It is repetitive. It is talentless. I mean, if it’s easy as that, I guess I could rap. I can talk about cars and money too. But no one has a good story, no one raps about anything that gets you thinking really. It’s the beats that get me now, I don’t even care what the words say. I just like to dance to it. That’s sad. I said to my boyfriend the other day, “I know about three songs about ‘lollipops’ that are out right now.” He’s like, “I know, there’s so many of them.” How you all gonna have the same damn sexual topic in your songs? How’s his lollipop referenced song any different than yours? We all know what it means and it means the same thing you mean by it. That isn’t creativity, or artistic as you said. Same topic, different beat. Same lyrics. I’m bored with the lyrics of hip hop these days. How many times you gonna call a girl a hoe? I hate to point out Bow Wow cuz I just bought the Face Off Album and I LOVE him, but…I saw an interview where he said somethin like, yeah our songs are different, listen to the lyrics, they all have a message, this ones about that and this songs about this….and I did listen to all the lyrics of every song and guess what? Every single song is about girls and sex. Every song. Girlfriend, Bachelor Pad, Take Off Your Clothes, Another Girl, Baby Girl, I mean…look at all the titles alone..all about girls. Do you have anything else to live for than girls? He also rapped about money and sex and basically being cocky and the best rapper and all that, but, doesn’t every rapper think they’re the shit? They all diss eachother, they all think they are the best rapper in the game. I was disappointed after he said that and I listened to the lyrics. Every music video is showing a club, girls, bling, cars, rims, money, a big ol’ party basically with girls shaking their asses. How is that creativity? How does that make you stand out from the rest? Damn I guess anyone can be famous these days. And yeah, it is all about money and that IS the problem with hip hop today.

Fantastic blog.

Spot f**king on.

Though Pretty Ricky isn’t technically a rap group, you do make a good point.

Hip Hop is dying, and more variety and substance in both the lyrics and music is the only thing that can necessitate it’s revival.

I’m forwarding this to all my friends, especially the ones stuck on listening to the radio and all the bulls**t that plays on it.

The reality is that hip hop is going out of fasion. True its still popular in the urban cities, but once you go outside, its a different story. Long gone are the days when people would say that style, music and fasion would come from the “ghettos”. Hip hop is a step behind fashion, music, beats and general creativity. Bottom line people are just burnt out of hip hop.

Well good point, but you don’t think every person has the right to listen to what they want?

True, people are tired of hip hop. The vast majority of today’s artist (especialy hip hop) are
just not original. Now more than ever radio stations play more old school music. Why? You ask, its because today’s music is a joke. All the beats are just jingles now, a quik fix and then your over them, real fast. Hip hop fans would tell you that its not dying and then they runoff a bunch of “underground” rappers, whom you never heard of. Once you do hear them, their just ok and then you say to yourself, “thats the best hip hop has to offer”?

We can thank the south for destroying hip hop!

Today’s hip hop music is just frustrating. I prefer listening these violence during gangsta rap era rather than the fuckin’crunk I use to hear on radio. After crunk emergency, new generation gonna have too much difficulties to build a new hip hop golden era.

Well I am currently working with a Hip Hop Artists that is bringing back all those hip hop elements that you state are missing….check out http://www.iamjustro.com

u wack ass hell white boy so shut the fuck up hip hop ain’t died it’s the hottest and it’s gone always b what sucks is yo mama and u, and rock-n-roll plus dat punk ass country shit and jazz and blue dumb 2 holla bitch

u a hate cuz u love it and it would mean something 2 da world if what u said matter’d but 2 bad it don’t haha ha lmfao but i say do punk ass bitch

all ya’ll dat don’t like hip-hop go suck a dick

Good job Jason, I enjoyed reading that. As a DJ who started scratching/mixing/producing in 1987, I totally agree with you. People just have to stop supporting the whack stuff. The problem is, the pop fans LOVE that southern hick rap. It’s like really bad country music. Until people stop PAYING for the music and networks and agencies stop using it for TV and film, it will live on. Right now, it is a bonafied CASH COW. Kids are eating it up.
Save yourselves and help save hip hop. Listen to some of these -
King Tee/Beatnuts/Black Moon/Gangstarr/NWA/Snoop/Ghetto Boys/Too Short/Black Sheep/Pharcyde/Beasties/WuTang/WC and the Madd Circle/Low Profile/Alkaholiks/Public Enemy/BDP

“Hip Hop” and “music” should never be used in the same sentence without a negative in between. It’s pure garbage “performed” by talentless ghetto rats.

hip hop does suck. every style of music has a shelf life before it become stale and a ridiculous parody of itself. punk rock died in 1985, classic rock turned into tacky heavy metal in the mid 80’s and now hip hop is imploding in on itself. in regards to heavy metal (a.k.a.) poison, motley crue etc. can now be seen in hindsight as an artistic form worthy of merit in kitschy and non-kitschy perspectives but hip hop is now even pushing the tacky level that metal had in the late 80’s and early 90’s. there are no more nbn, black sheeps, public enemies or tribe called quests. i used to love hip hop but now when i am tuned into one of those radio stations that play the same awful songs over and over again my skin literally crawls. hip hop heads, unless they re-invent the art form will go the way of greasers in the 60’s, hippies in the 70’s, metal heads in the late 80’s and punks in the 90’s. for example: what is called punk today is not punk. musical movements start as more than a sound, they start from a social movement. once that movement is dried up so is the art form. re-invent yourself hip hop or you will die, if you are not already dead………

This article speaks of everything I have been saying about Hip-Hop. I agree completley that the lyrics and beats alike have been lost. Some artists are so lazy that they rip other rapper’s lyrics and bass beats. The industry has become more involved and concerned about the money and fame, that they lost sight on the art. To me, I don’t want to hear about how great someones life is and how cool and hard they are. I want to bob my head to a fresh beat and listen to someone tell me “I understand.” Music is my therapy, and unfortunatley with the new tracks I’ve missed a few sessions.

However… not all has been lost in Hip-Hop. I’ve acctually found that some of the moral filled lyrics are forcing their way to the surface. My favorite artist at the moment is Lupe Fiasco. He has a base of realness through out his entire album, both on “Food & Liquor” and his newer release “The Cool.” I expessially love the way he switches the beat style song to song, he completes each song by discovering a beat that compliments the basis of his lyrics. Each song seems to have its own theme, and is guranteed to make you listen and most importantley, feel. If you haven’t copped the album, I would suggest checking it out. You might find some hope in the industry like I did.

Check out my blog “Hip-Hop Politics” at http://www.knaebel.blogspot.com you may find it interesting.

Everyone take notes. People are entitled to an opinoin, even if it’s a dumb one, and that’s what Scott has displayed above. Scott is probably just another dumb rock fan or metalhead who can’t appreciate anyother forms of music unless an electric guitar and a guy screaming is included. Well kid, get out of the closet for once and learn that there’s different types of music out there expressed in different ways and if everything was done how rock and metal is done then we would be living in a boring world. Now I agree some rap sucks, mostly the mainstream stuff, but to discredit all rap as being talentless is like saying all rock and metal is garbage headbanging and talking about worshipping the devil. So next time think before you post, it would help alot better.

hiphop is not dead or dying. you are just not diggin hard enough. have you heard of underground hiphop? lol! c’mon man. Theres lots of dope hiphop out now. jedi mind tricks, reef the lost cauze, planet asia, 9th wonder, etc,etc

Wow..and I thought I was the only one who thought like this. Hip hop and the rappers in the buisiness have no one but themselves to blame for this. GREED. Get rich quick schemes. Think about how many rappers in the last 6-7 years have come and gone with one hit wonders? I too am consantly putting Cd’s from the early and mid 90’s in my car. I am just sick and tired of rap today its disgrace. Hip hop today is is a reflection of what life is today also. Followers and posers. We need leaders! Everybody in rap today is doing the same crap. They saying the same stuff from 10-12 yrs ago but with smaller words. The only rapper I will still listen to and buy cd’s from is Nas cause he doesnt change for no one. Hes a true leader in the hip hop world. But its sad that he isnt as popular because he isnt mainstream and doesnt sell out.

hip hop is not dead…just sadly unoriginal.
i loved hiphop even before i understood it…in my opinion,
hip hop’s golden era was 1992-1998 that was it…anybody agrees with me?
the last album i paid for was the Wu Tang’s Irong Flag.

i’d love to find new artists who have something original to offer…hip hop is what it is…i don’t analyze it, i just know when something i hear moves me and i haven’t been moved!:(

Scott says  ::  November 29th, 2008 @ 11:26 am EST
I don’t know how anyone can call hip hop or rap “music”. The “melody” is nothing but mind numbing repetition, and it sounds the same from “song” to “song”. There is no art, it’s all about bilking money from stupid people. There are no verses, no chorus, no brige. Hell, they don’t even SING it. How can you call something like that MUSIC??? And the words are melodious, filled with profanity, violence and just plain filth.
Let’s call a spade a spade. Hip Hop/Rap is garbage.
Reply to Scott  ::  Click to quote this comment

I guess if my culture was dying I’d listen to meaningless nihilistic crap like hip hop.

Well If you think hip hop is bad what about rock and roll everything leads back to dealing with life and rapper are hust commenting on life so edger allen poe is about death but yet his is taught to our kids in the school system to sum it up if you think rap sucks you think all music sucks because rock n roll cocaine and sex also and if it was soo bad then why are most of the popular stations playing Hip hop music

ALSO CHECK OUT: http://www.newraphits.weebly.com

Well If you think hip hop is bad what about rock and roll everything leads back to dealing with life and rapper are hust commenting on life so edger allen poe is about death but yet his is taught to our kids in the school system to sum it up if you think rap sucks you think all music sucks because rock n roll cocaine and sex also and if it was soo bad then why are most of the popular stations playing Hip hop music

ALSO CHECK OUT: http://www.newraphits.weebly.com

Hey NICK, ever hear of [i]PUNCTUATION?[/i] Reading your comment is like sticking burning bamboo shoots up under your fingernails.

LudaMic says  ::  April 22nd, 2009 @ 8:58 pm EST
…or of spelling?
Reply to LudaMic  ::  Click to quote this comment

Well ever heard the saying every dog has his day. Hip Hop had that in the 80s to 90s roughly. Soul and funk had its day in the late 60s and through to the early 80s, rock n roll had its in the 50s and 60s. Now comes the day of electro dance and various break beat drum n bass music. Hip Hop had a good run, now is the time for something new

Currently in my part of the world there is a growing surge of rejection of hip hop music. People are rediscovering the music which was around before hip hop and to be fair it has more meaning than repetitive rap music. Theres even kids I know who have gone through all this gangsta and modern rnb stuff to now listen to old rock music, reggae, dub and classic RnB and they thank god that their eyes were opened to decent music. Like I said proper hip hop has had its day, it was pimped by corporate record companies and like rock before it there is no complete return from that path.

all HIP HOP SUCKS. rAP sUCKS except for a few artists like rundmc. The only true music is blues music and rock music which all the others ripped off. We can all blame the white man for stealing it and making it a commercial enterprise. Elvis pressley was mah only noiga.

all HIP HOP SUCKS. rAP sUCKS except for a few artists like rundmc. The only true music is blues music and rock music which all the others ripped off. We can all blame the white man for stealing it and making it a commercial enterprise. Elvis pressley was mah only noiga.

it’s mainstream that killed hiphop by believing studio producers that hood tales were the true essence of hiphop. That formula was played out by 94 but to middle america they believed the hype, that “this is really seeing into the otherside of how people live.” lets not kid each other about this fact. Those same people have now grown tired of that, but don’t fret diehards out their there are still some who would like to continue to exploit hiphop for profit in a negative way, so to all u diehards that have been weened on the 17year old hiphop of chronic,bitches aint shit, tap the 40’s. that error/era will still be around sadly to say.

theres to many choreographers in the game and not enough real rappers and thats whats wrong with hip hop. by choreographers i mean people like the Gspot boys, soulja boy,and unk. if these niggaz like dancing more than they like rapping then they might as well retire and become real choreoghraphers cause they damn sho aint no real rappers. the rap game would be just fine with out them. and another thing is the autotuning. i cant stand hearing songs autotuned.these rappers think it sound good but that shit is annoying.if you know you a good rapper then you dont need a gimmick to make yo shit sound good. the way you flow on the track should be yo gimmick.

Mainstream Hip-hop is dead but, the Underground scene is actually starting to flourish agian. If you want proof of this go to Okayplayer.com then go to 4Meagaupload.com to undermine the still dying Mainstream music industry

Rap and Hip Hop suck and they suck big. Its just a bunch of no talent hoods with no education thinking that they are some sort of poet. Its pure garbage and always will be. It has pushed on only because this weak society that we now have allows it to thrive. Its time to wake up people and get educated to the real society of those who know how to speak the english language properly. To those who know how to dress so as to not look like a bunch of clowns. Hey you out there! Find some damn pants that fit!

Why does everyone list Kanye West as such a genious?

I loved hip-hop once, then I grew up. It’s called real music, people, go check some out.

Hip hop isn’t dying, period. The genre itself is bigger than ever.

The idea that if rap is selling off the shelves means that the art is not dying is stupid. In fact, the death of hip hop would be that its flying on the shelves. If you truly know this music you will know that its not meant to be pop. Pop is simply short for popular. There is nothing popular about a genre of music that was created from the street. There is nothing popular about living in a project, selling drugs, robbin, and killin or being there to witness it. Once it does become popular it will only be used as a way for suburban kids to vicariously live through the misery of urban youth–that’s not cool at all.

I am with you, there are to many untalented kids out there that push buttons or draw lines through fruityloops and call it art..How many so called hip hop artists do you know that can play a c sharp minor chord..well I dont know one,,,they sample and loop there way into our ears and that repeditive crap just bothers me!!

Oh ya..it is also hard to understand these retards..

Yo dog, im a be up in da boofh spitin my rhymes dog

And the always fun to deal with ” yo man, Im a blow up dog, let me get this free studio time and Ill take you wit me”

I do agree with your point of view of hip hop music.
I’m actually going to do a speech in my english class about how hip hop lyrics suck…..

Convince record execs that they can’t get away with signing subpar talent (i.e. through what we buy). Then I think we’ll be good to go.

people have been buying poor records that have paraded around as hiphop for the last 15years, there is a reason some one will say they like hiphop pre 93, the ones that don’t like the years 93 and after is because they were either first exposed to it in the first place, it was the early 90’s lets remember that hiphop music finally became excepted by the record corp exes and ofcourse it became mainstreamed, but with that mainstreaming it lost it’s context,content for sales to a non educated consumer. Those now who boogied to it post 93 either got common sence and or grew up.

I could not have said it any better! But you forgot one thing. We as the consumers or these artists do NOT determine what gets played on the radio or tv. We have to get at the industry, THEY are the ones killing hip hop. Conscious or a more genuine Hip Hop is out there and we just have to keep supporting them.

Peace
Tah From The Tah And J Smooth Show!
Every Wednesday 8-10pm on http://www.waen.tv. Click Live Radio
This weeks topic is the State of Hip Hop.