Jason Rosenbaum

Immigrant Voices :: Impressions From The Chicago Immigration Rally, May 1st 2007

by Jason Rosenbaum  ::  Filed Under Immigration, U.S. Domestic Issues  ::  May 5th, 2007 @ 10:47 am EST

I must admit, I am not inclined to mass protests. To me, protest culture seems anachronistic, a product of the 1960’s when large rallies really meant something. However, there is no doubting the power you feel when you see tens of thousands of people marching for a cause.

On May 1st, an estimated 75,000 people marched from Union Park to Grant Park in downtown Chicago. They marched for a variety of specific causes all under the banner of loosening immigration controls. According to the Illinois Coalition for Immigrant and Refugee Rights, a main organizer for the rally, there were four main political goals:

  • legalization and a path to earned citizenship for the undocumented
  • reunification of families divided by broken immigration laws
  • a moratorium on the immigration raids separating families
  • condemn President Bush’s anti-family “Z-visas”

People marched carrying a menagerie of signs and banners with slogans like, “No human being is illegal!” and, “Keep families together!” People marched with drums, horns, and noisemakers, cheering as they moved down the steel canyons of downtown Chicago. People marched with flags, predominantly American, and chanted “U.S.A.” as they walked. People brought their mothers, daughters, sons, brothers, fathers, and extended families to protest for their rights. The rally was peaceful, exuberant, and admittedly exciting. I was able to capture some of the crowd, along with some of the message, on my cell phone video camera.

While the crowd was mostly Hispanic, many marched in solidarity. Construction workers stopped to cheer as the march passed, and whites, blacks, and Asians marched too. Churches, gay rights groups, and schools joined the procession. Socialist symbols were on display, including a poster of Che Guevara with the caption, “The worker’s struggle has no borders!” This march was a Mayday event, celebrating the hard worker as the backbone of society.

Construction workers stopping in solidarity with the marchers below.

Sherri Wolf, marching in solidarity, said she was for, “Amnesty for all. If you drive down the wages of one section of the working class then we are all screwed.” This year’s turnout was smaller than last year’s, and Ms. Wolf thinks that’s because some illegal immigrants were intimidated by recent raids conducted by immigration enforcement agents. “Bus-loads came last year,” she said, “This year they were terrorised into staying home.”

Selicia, a mother marching with her family, asked me to take a picture so her children could remember this march. She supports immigration reform. When asked what specifically she supports, she responded, “For the hard workers who can prove they’ve been working to get legalization.” A worthy sentiment in my opinion.

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Cynthia, a Loyola student, spoke out in favor of “fair and just immigration policies.” Most importantly, she was against breaking up immigrant families, regardless of their status. “The reason people are coming [to the US],” she said, “is because the US is ruining the Mexican economy. Leave our country alone and we’ll leave yours alone.” She couldn’t sympathize with those in the US who are against immigration. “They don’t see the realities of what’s going on,” she said, “They only see [immigrants] as criminals.”

As the marchers emptied into Grant Park the size of this rally was clearly evident, with so many people standing against Chicago’s imposing skyline.

Was anybody listening to these protesters? I truly hope so. At marches like this it often seems like the participants are talking to themselves. These days, protest rallies are so easy for politicians to ignore. In fact, I feel Chicago found this event decidedly non-threatening. Police presence was extremely light, with cops in normal uniforms stationed every couple blocks, looking mostly bored or bemused. While anti-war demonstrations in 2006 drew police in riot gear, the May 1st march felt like a family affair.

To me, this is encouraging. Immigration is not a threat to our country, and I’m glad it wasn’t treated as such. I hope political leaders in Chicago and all over the United States were watching these marches. Those protesting are human beings, and they deserve to be treated as such. In fact, US citizens should be proud so many foreigners want to become Americans. Our forefathers have worked hard to build this country, with many immigrants among them, and we should be happy to share our prosperity with the world. Certainly there are issues that need to be worked out, but I’m convinced our immigration system can be reformed to allow many more workers to enter the US while preserving jobs and our social services for everyone.

Your thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated. Did you attend a march on May 1st? What do you take away from events such as this? Are protests effective political tools?

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DISCUSSION

36 RESPONSES to “Immigrant Voices :: Impressions From The Chicago Immigration Rally, May 1st 2007”

Josh says  ::  May 5th, 2007 @ 4:16 pm EST

This is great J-Ro, the individual perspectives are a nice touch.

I wish I could have been there.

KTB says  ::  May 7th, 2007 @ 9:47 am EST

Thanks J-Ro for comming out and seeing what it was all about. I had a really interesting time and delt with a lot of personal growth–namely feeling like an outsider. What I think was really cool was the common goal of education. I think no matter what the viewpoints, everybody marching wanted to make this an issue. This is not something we can ignore!

I’d like to hear some comments about whether this is an effective political tool. When I stepped outside the march I heard either angry comments or indifference (aka how is this going to effect my commute).

Also, although the march was smaller than last year, it felt enormous.

KB

micky says  ::  May 7th, 2007 @ 12:55 pm EST

The more the merrier! With all opinions ,perspectives and platforms givin due respect. The safety of my country is paramount to anything. I beleive most people just want to know whos here and why.
This is my house and I live here with alot of people. You’re welcome to come in , but you have to knock first, tell me who you are, and you cant raid my fridge.
I’ll go out on a limb and say that most of the problems with passing decent immigration and worker programs are race based and money.
I nearly had to pick my face up off the floor when Bush was asked about the border , he said “money trumps security”
This is ridiculous but true in the political world ,but what good is all the money in the world if were breathing toxic fumes ?

J-Ro says  ::  May 7th, 2007 @ 12:59 pm EST

I agree with you here micky. There need to be effective rules, based on facts and not trumped up fears, but the more the merrier. As I see it, the greatest issues we are having today in the immigration debate is how to clean up the mess of immigration laws that we currently have. People debate amnesty or no amnesty and such. I’m for giving amnesty and then creating some new rules (that increase the immigration allowed to meet with demand) that actually make sense and will be enforced from here on out. That way we can make amends with the past, clean up the mess, and move forward on sound footing.

micky says  ::  May 7th, 2007 @ 1:21 pm EST

Of course ! I mean are we really going to send back all illegals , shit , theyre already here. Lets get them situated. And i don’t care what anybody calls it , call it amnesty or whatever it’s just common sense.The cost ,the trauma to the kids that got caught in the middle ,it would be a fiasco laced with anarchy.I beleive the numbers are something like 20 million.
I’m sorry, but mass deportation like that is just plain stupid hysteria.
NOW… we need to put somes rules down based on todays world.
Laws are amended and changed through the course of history.Unfortunatly the process will be subjected to other interests add - ons pork etc…
Like you said ,the devils in the details

Deyanira says  ::  May 11th, 2007 @ 6:42 am EST

the americans should finally realize how important immigrants have become to this country and lik it or not they have helped contribute to this country in many ways.Because they do jobs that other people wont really do or take serious but yet they do it for minimum wage and they take it serious just to feed there families back home.So tell me if thats criminal to you?

micky says  ::  May 11th, 2007 @ 7:27 pm EST

would you let “anyone” into the country based on that position ?

J-Ro says  ::  May 11th, 2007 @ 7:29 pm EST

would you let “anyone” into the country based on that position ?

My personal opinion is everyone who is working and who isn’t a criminal should be welcomed. That’s pretty inclusive, I know, but I feel that is the right thing to do.

micky says  ::  May 11th, 2007 @ 8:10 pm EST

I agree, I just dont think everyone in just over a sob story. For example , what if there are no more jobs available , or it’s someone with ill intent that is using poverty as a cover for their dastardly deeds.
America should help all the people it can , but we need to control the border.

micky says  ::  May 12th, 2007 @ 8:06 am EST

In this day and age and in this country we have an opportunity to show the world that we are truly the cornerstone of tolerance and acceptance.
Right now alot of the world has a bone to pick with us. Whether it’s the war or all the countries that we have imposed our interests on , our image could probably use a little help.
As far as our immediate neighbors go { Mexico& Canada } we should be really gratefull. Can you imagine if Canada were North Korea ? Actually we’re blessed having the two at our flanks.
The border and immigration mess is one of the best opprtunity’s America has to show the world that we are not complete assholes. If we can straighten this mess out not only would it almost eliminate the humanitarian crisis that results from the status quo ,it would really go to show the world that this is a true democracy at work.
By accepting illegal immigrants that are here now , documenting them and getting their feet on the ground we eliminate half the kaos.Setting up the border better from a security standpoint would really help self image.
The rest of the world must be saying ” look at those idiots! they’re figting two wars for security reasons ,and yet you can walk right across the border !”
And most important is the immigrant mortality rate. If things were more organized less people would be dying in the back of trailers and in the desert.
Setting the immigration/border system up so that it actually makes sense is one of the best tools at our hands right now to show the world that we are fair and compassionate. And it would make it hell of alot easier to filter out those that mean us harm.
We have to be able to show the world that we really do care about those that need help. And that we are tolerant of other society’s assimilating into ours. And we also need to let them know that if you think you can just march in here and blow us up , you’re wrong.
We could kill a few fly’s in one blow if we handled this the right way. We have an opportunity to help, and to show the world an example of what true humane co-existence can be like.
America is already a melting pot and we show more tolerance than any other country as it is. But with todays problems ,fixing our immigration and border polocies would be one of our best weapons.
Right now the world see’s us as cancer spreading ,I don’t beleive this but alot of people do.I think we need to be seen a little more often as a nurturing host. We need to be a model and an example of true compassion and diplomacy then we might have less wars to fight.

J-Ro says  ::  May 12th, 2007 @ 9:37 am EST

Well said micky! The immigration issue really needs to be handled. As we try and “spread freedom and democracy” in the Middle East, we need to be sure we are handling those who want our freedom and democracy at home. As you point out, immigration ties into a lot of issues, morality, democracy, economics, and national security, and I think we can satisfy the needs of the immigrants while making sure America prospers at the same time.

micky says  ::  May 12th, 2007 @ 11:57 am EST

Unfortunatly corporate America has a ton of hurdles that involve the system already in place. Alot of company’s and institutions are dependent on the system as it is. This system has been in place for decades and nobody wants to let go. We are all afraid of the unknown , and when you talk about an undertaking as large as this , the negative speculation will come into play.
If the senate and congress could get their shit together we could cut this process in half.
But if we don’t put some good ideas up in front of the country now , before the elections are over, this will fade away as a priority once who ever it is lands in the oval office. Right now immigration is just a stepping stone for candidates , an opportunity to seem as if they’re embracing the country’s concerns. We need to get one or some of these chameleon’s to commit to a plan instead of saying “it’s at the top of their list”
Nobody in goverment {most of them} wants the system to change , it works “for them ” via special interests etc… So now is the time , the next year and a half or so is Americas window of opportunity to make this happen.

J-Ro says  ::  May 12th, 2007 @ 12:38 pm EST

I’m not sure corporate America is as big of a hurdle as you think. The first step would be to legalize those already here as guest workers or some such. Then, we can gradually raise their minimum wage. No big steps, but we need to stop this “shadow immigration” as it stands today.

micky says  ::  May 12th, 2007 @ 4:23 pm EST

I’ve heard “shadow immigration” used before , but I’m not sure what it means. The rest of the family coming later or some kind of farce ?

micky says  ::  May 12th, 2007 @ 4:25 pm EST

I agree we need to deal with those here now , but we have to stop the bleeding too , or it will impare our ability to deal with the ones here now.

J-Ro says  ::  May 12th, 2007 @ 4:56 pm EST

I’ve heard “shadow immigration” used before , but I’m not sure what it means. The rest of the family coming later or some kind of farce ?

I call the current state of immigration law “shadow immigration.” We have some immigration laws on the books. They are rarely enforced. We have a lot of illegal immigrants living in the US, but they are not really pursued. They have a shadow status, not really criminals, but not legal. They pay some taxes, they collect some government services. It is all and all a very weird system. These people need to be legalized so they can have some security about their status and start paying and receiving all they are due from society. What we have now is clearly a broken system.

micky says  ::  May 12th, 2007 @ 6:36 pm EST

O.K. , I guess I was close , the shadow being those that choose not to surface are not necessarily a farce but they’re too scared to surface {innocent illegals or criminal illegals}I like that term “innocent illegals” It might get a laugh at first but if you apply it correctly it has good meaning.The dope dealers , coyotes , felon’s on the run. And then there’s the people that just want to work , they are illegal, but without malice or ill intent. To me these people are welcome ,but we shouldn’t pay the cost to jail the assholes.Send them home. I’m sure the percentage is low enough that it would not be to big a job. But anyway , back to the main issue , I think J-ROs right ,If were going to have any kind of change it’s going to have to start with situating the people here now, and get their foot in the door.And then organize the border so the bleed can more respectably be called the flow. Even if we were not at war , the border as it is would invite an incident , I’ll bet money on that.AND It’s not just the Mexican border. I live in Hawaii,surrounded by 3000 miles of water and people getting through in containers and on forged paper work. And were are sitting ducks for bio-terrorism.Our labor force is not effected because it’s just too hard to hide these things.But you can hide the person themself.
Whatever we do , it has to happen soon because I have a feeling that as soon as the next president takes office , this problem will go on the back burner.
I,m not experienced in activism ,I’ve seen some of your journalist/authors ask people on certain subjects to make calls or sign petitions . Would an action like that help get this done before the elections ?

J-Ro says  ::  May 12th, 2007 @ 9:13 pm EST

As to where to start to get things done, that’s a tough one. Immigration reform has for a long time now been a “loser” issue, because it invites such strong feelings in most Americans and it deals mostly with people who aren’t citizens, and thus some people think shouldn’t be paid too much thought. For suggestions on where to get started I would call your representative and tell them what you support. I would take any chance you get to meet the candidates and voice your opinion, and I’d search Google for local immigrant activist groups. There are no doubt some groups in every state and they can point you towards things you can do. It seems like with this problem, like many other “losers”, the real change will start with the local government and the state government. Already some states have come out for immigrant rights, refusing to enforce anti-immigrant federal laws. If that’s the kind of leadership this issue needs, then I’m all for it.

micky says  ::  May 19th, 2007 @ 4:34 pm EST

think the border’s gonna get rushed ?

J-Ro says  ::  May 19th, 2007 @ 9:21 pm EST

Ah micky! Glad to see you again, thought we’d lost you there for a second. I’m not sure there will be a rush, but the immigration reform bill that looks like it will be passed by Congress should make for an interesting situation.

micky says  ::  May 20th, 2007 @ 9:23 am EST

Thought you guys went on vacation,I was waiting to hear more on the African doctor front.
The word is out, run for the border !
I don,t know if I should be so lite hearted about this.
Because, look at what just a handfull of idiots could do on sept.11.
I’ve thought about this long and hard since J-ROs entry #18. I’m not crazy about states that won’t enforce fed. law.I understand the passion, I’ve lived everywhere in this country and met alot of really cool people from all over the world and I like having them around. I am the king of mixing it up. Man I love cultures and variations in everything. And I don’t do pure-bred pussy ! {too much info ?]
I dont believe that rogue states would be the answer. We should receive only what we can handle. What if jobs and benefits end up in short supply, and the migration rate stays the same ? A humanitarian and homeless crisis ?
Lets put all other issues aside for a sec. Political ,race ,economy, civil, humanitarian etc..
except for security.
I beleive that a country is like a person. This country is not the same person it was when Clinton was in office.That person got violated and beaten on 911.
And so the country’s personality has changed. Senses have been heightend and so have emotions. Bush is dealing with a different country than the one that elected him.
And deep down I think alot of people are scared but choose to hide that fear and anger by focusing on other issues. We took a hit and were still not thinking straight.
God Bless gentelmen ! Close the fucking border !
How can we be of any help for any cause if we are crippled by a handfull of assholes ? Everything else is mute if you dont control your entrance.
I really like the kumbaya thing , I want to sit araound the campfire with everyone. Unfortunately you have to put gaurds up at each end of the beach these days so a bunch of assholes wont come and kick sand in our faces, or kill us.

micky says  ::  May 20th, 2007 @ 10:38 am EST

I think that congress is just going to shit all over everyone again.I don’t know how old most of your staff or readers are , but I just turned 50 today {not done growinup}and I’ve seen these guys do this shit right before an election about a hundred times!
Try to make everyone think they care for anyone or the corner they support. If they’re not going to keep the country safe what makes anyone think that they care about our immigrants ? legal or illegal. It’ll all get swept under right after the election, wanna bet ?
We got the best system in the world, and at the same time it needs ALOT of work. And most of that work should be put into eliminating red tape and politically correct adventures.
Glenn Beck said something interesting the other day ” Our govt. basically has two sides that can blame each other for whatever, which is why it takes forever to get anything done. Dictators have no one to blame so they use religion and find an enemy so as to rally their masses.” That statement goes more to the war , but also points out just how this system of ours can be on one hand great for democracy, but real bad for security.
Try to get into N. Korea or or Syria or Iran. These guys aren’t our freinds but they know the basics of running a country {bad or good} and that is to control your border. Look at Israel ! They got it right , but paid dearly to get it. Why wouldn’t we look at them as an example of why we need to tigten up security?
Half the shit I’ve seen in sci-fi movies has come to real life ,and thats spooky when half the shows are about some kind of apoclypse or end times.
They probably let this whole immigration thing get out of control just so they could pretend that they’re fixing something. Munchhausen govt. by proxy.

J-Ro says  ::  May 20th, 2007 @ 12:48 pm EST

I’ve got no real problem with border security per se, but I think we need to look at the entire immigration issue as well. Basically, shutting off the border is treating the symptoms, not the disease. Lots of people want to come to America. The question is why do these people want to come. Partly it is because America has done a great job promoting its own greatness to the rest of the world. People want to come here for the same reasons they have always wanted to come, because America is the land of opportunity.

However, people also want to come here because there are jobs here that pay better than they can get at home, if they can even find work at home. Now, why are there no jobs at home? Well, some of it has to do with mis-managed government, but some also has to do with crippling trade agreements the US has with South American countries. We say we have “free trade” with Mexico and others, but we still put a huge tariff (read: tax) on imported food to prop up our ailing farm industries. Because South American growers can’t profitably export their crops to the US, because they can’t compete with untaxed US products, they stop growing. Instead, they pack up and move here to help us grow our crops.

Now, the situation is more complex than even this, but I’m only in favor of beefing up border security in conjunction with broader immigration reform. As we’ve seen, people are willing to risk their lives and their money to come here illegally. If we make getting into America harder, that won’t stop the flow of immigrants, it will just make things more dangerous and expensive. If we declare a war on immigrants like we’ve declared a war on drugs, we will have another extremely expensive war that we can’t win. The only way to stem immigration (and especially illegal immigration) is fair trade practices and increasing the supply of legal options to meet the demand. So, if you are for border security, then I think you need to support guest worker programs and expanded visas and green cards. You really can’t have one without the other.

I think the latest immigration bill going before Congress, which just might pass, is a decent compromise on these points. It beefs up enforcement, both at the border and at the employer level, and it increases visa supply and creates a guest worker program. That said, the legislation is complex and still not permissive enough for my tastes. Unless we expand our supply of legal options to meet demand, we will put a lot of money into fighting a border war we just won’t win.

micky says  ::  May 20th, 2007 @ 4:14 pm EST

After I look at everything I still think it’s common logic to get a doorman , or the club will turn to kaos.
I really don’t accept any responsability for Mexico’s financial plite. If their govt was a little more honest I am sure half of their problems would be solved , the country is riddled with coruption.
But like I’ve said ,nothing else really matters if we are going to run the border as half ass as we do.
I’m talking about a physical concrete border ,fence , wires whatever. And then approaching other issues will be a hell of a lot easier once we stop the bleeding.
I’m all for everything , really ! I’m not being the least bit condescending. Our diversity is one of our greatest strengths. I beleive in a stronger work force , and the selective process of screening who we let into our country wether its for guest workers , wanna be citizens, or family members of citizens.
But man… you only need to be wrong once and “kablooey” ! then what do you have ?
First things first.
You don’t want to let a whole generation of people move to this country so they can get blown up ?
If we’re not going to handle our shit , then these people are better of staying home. I myself entertain the thought of moving to New Zealand or some obscure corner of the earth.
We dont need to be fighting any border , we need to follow the example of alot of other countries and just secure it.Alot of other countries are nowhere near as accomidating to other people as we are. We can do both but not if we let anyone govt. or media convince us that it’s to big or too hard to do.
Look at New Orleans ! The latino work force is responsable for the progress that town has made. And I heard a couple bitch’s about Americans loosing work to illegals , but that was it , just a couple . We need this work force and these people.It’s a win win situation , but we have to absolutely be secure or there will be no America for anyone to come to.

J-Ro says  ::  May 21st, 2007 @ 5:23 am EST

I mean, I’m with you on security. On its face I really have nothing against it. But here’s my prediction. If we try and secure the border first, then deal with the root causes of immigration and some solutions, instead of doing these two things together, we will have a fight on our hands that we just won’t win. I’m saying it is impossible to actually secure the border. You can throw as much money and manpower at the problem as you want, but securing the border without addressing some of the things I mentioned above is like trying to stop drug use in America…it just isn’t going to happen. Like I said, I’m not against the idea of secure borders, and control is important to national security, but I’m a realist. And the real situation is that people will emmigrate illegally and they will find ways around whatever controls we throw at the border.

micky says  ::  May 21st, 2007 @ 9:12 am EST

I’m a recovering addict an alcoholic , so the comparison to war on drugs is right up my ally.I’m actually for legalization, which goes completly against my right lean.
I know for a fact that if there was no availability I would of come to my senses quicker {rock bottom }.
But heres the deal , There is no war on drugs ,Reagan just drummed up that slogan to keep suburbanite voters happy,made a few high profile bust’s and bla bla bla.
If the flow of drugs was cut off completly you would see millions of people out of work.
If the flow of illegals or migrant workers was cut off we would suffer. Food would rot, labor cost would skyrocket,housing ,everything would take a big shit.
But I beleive we have enough workers here as it is ,and quite a few still looking for work.
Now… the control of the border would no doubt cut down on availability of drugs and the flow of illegals. The two are very closely tied together,half the dope in this country comes across the southern border.
I’m not saying that we should put up the same system as N. Korea , but we should have a basic system in place much like a club. Sorry , too crowded , or you need an I.D. ,your too drunk whatever the reason may be.It needs to monitored and organized. The dyke has more holes than we have fingers. We can’t fix anything if we are still bleeding. Its not fair to the people that live here and the ones that have made it here if we think a wall wont help.
I really dont understand how anyone can say a wall wont help.I mean really. Especially from a security standpoint. I’ll bet my life it wont hurt , unless you fall off of it
Our country thrives on diversity , but if we let it be an open store to the world we are inviting anarchy.
The dope alone cost this country billions.
And then there the cost of getting those that are here setteled. For gods sake just secure the border and everything will fall into place.
But of course alot of this is my own spewing. We still have to deal with all the politicians and special interests. Yea we need alot of things to happen but it all comes back to one thing , we must control the flow or it will hamper our abilities in so many ares its not even funny. I dont want to make a list , I’ll just invite everyone to be honest with themselves and use their imaginations. If most people knew that the worst strech of desert had a wall at the border I think we could save a few lives too.

micky says  ::  May 21st, 2007 @ 9:35 am EST

cant treat syptoms or disease unless you stop the bleeding

micky says  ::  May 24th, 2007 @ 11:22 pm EST

I’m probably going to get my ass reamed for saying this , but its intended not to offend anyone especially immigrant’s, but here goes.
Why not offer citizenship to those that want to come here if they will accept a decent paying job building a wall on the border ?
Theres a good labor force that keeps growing , right?

J-Ro says  ::  May 25th, 2007 @ 7:12 am EST

I’m probably going to get my ass reamed for saying this , but its intended not to offend anyone especially immigrant’s, but here goes.
Why not offer citizenship to those that want to come here if they will accept a decent paying job building a wall on the border ?
Theres a good labor force that keeps growing , right?

Well, I would call that demeaning. But, if the wall does get built, guess who is going to do the building?

micky says  ::  May 25th, 2007 @ 8:26 am EST

This was Ann coulters idea, but she was just trying to be funny.I want to take it to a more dignified level.
It’s hard to make a proposal like that without seeming like a total asshole.
But hell , when they’re done this will be just a much they’re country. If it is presented in a way that doesn’t demean anyone ,and with patriotism in mind it could work.
But of course there are those that would take it the wrong way.
And I’m not afraid to use the word “Mexican” but this idea would apply to anyone , especially those already in line that have been waiting years.
And I,m not talking about some ominous thing like the Berlin wall.More of a system with sensor’s , check point’s ,stations , fences at strategic areas. And most important rest areas with call boxes and fluids and first aid. Alot of people get desperate thinking they’ll avoid agent’s by taking the long way.

J-Ro says  ::  May 25th, 2007 @ 8:34 am EST

The way I see it, trying to cut off the flow of immigrants by physical means alone will be about as successful as the drug war. We’re trying to stop people from doing something they really want to do. People are already risking their lives to come to this country. What makes anybody think a wall or whatever security system we can throw at the problem will help? More likely, we will end up with a hugely expensive enforcement problem that does little to actually stop immigrants from getting to this country.

Now, enforcement is fine, but to make a difference you need to tie it to a greatly expanded guest worker program, a clear and easy path to citizenship, and amnesty for those already here. That way, you are giving people legal options (and in a big enough supply) to really stop the flow of illegals.

micky says  ::  May 25th, 2007 @ 10:03 am EST

True , but I feel like we’re going in circles here.
We have to stop the flow so that whatever needs to be done can be done.
I’ll give an example; I move up here on a guest worker program ,rent a house get setteled.Then with my money start bringing all my friends and family up here. But with no regard for the system.
And then theres all the guys that want to kill us too.{and the ones that did }
They enterd this country through the system and violated the system in order to stay here. That avenue is a being watched a lot closer than our border is now.
Not to mention the sleeper cells that I bet are already here.
My main issue is protecting the people that are already here. Thats our first responsability.And I’m like Ted Nugent in this department.
In organics and buisness and all objects, everything has a border , no matter if its a soap bubble a nucleus an egg or even your own skin, if you breach that circumference it fails. And I feel the same about the country.
Not everyone that applies as a guest worker is going to get it.
I’m all for helping anyone and everyone that we can,but my god ladies and gentlemen can’t any body understand that there’s a group of individuals out there that will do ANYTHING to kill us ? Ther should be absolutly 100% no margin for error.And theres the northern border too !
It’s already been proven that they don’t need to bring anything with them. They just need to get here.
Drugs are alot easier to smuggle than people. I weigh 200lbs. and take up about 6 sq.feet. If I were dope the sale would keep me comfortable for life.
I think of my country as my house. You’re all welcome, but you have to knock first and tell me who you are. Come on in and help you get you’re feet on the ground.
But you can’t just walk in and raid the frige , I’ll throw you out, cause its not fair to all the guys sleeping on my floor.

J-Ro says  ::  May 25th, 2007 @ 10:08 am EST

My belief would be both goals need to happen together, because they need to work together for either of them to work. However, the current legislation puts security benchmarks before the guest worker program. If we do this, I don’t think we’ll ever hit those security benchmarks (because people will find a way around them) and we’ll never really stop the flow. I think that’s my major argument. Security is not a bad goal, but for it to work it needs to happen in conjunction with a couple of other goals, such as expanding the options for those trying to enter legall