Canada’s problems do sound nicer than ours. And it does seem that Canadians as a whole are further to the left than Americans, although there are a lot of conservative Canadians.

And Rick Moranis has indeed made great contributions to human society.

Haha, Harper is not a Democrat. He is a nationalist from the oil-rich Western part of Canada. He called Kyoto “essentially a socialist scheme to suck money out of rich countries”. He supported the Iraq invasion, vigorously, demanding that we support the United States. Conservative supporters even have “SUPPORT R TROOPS!!!” bumper stickers.

His current persona is to appeal to non-crazies, to win a majority of votes in the House of Commons. Then his true face will be shown. Cracking down on gays, abortion, and invading brown people? True Canadian Conservative values.

“We’re basically the same party, you know. Conservatives and Republicans are quite the same.” — Conservative Premier Ralph Klein speaking to reporters in Washington after a [extremely friendly] 2003 meeting with U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney.

Hey man,

Speaking for all Canadians up here in beautiful BC, come on up! We have such modern luxuries as the government not spying on your communications and concepts of personal privacy still!

Also, in your daring move to the great white north, you can relax in the summer on the beaches of the pacific at places such as Spanish Banks, Lake Okangakan, and then during the winter sky at Whistler.

Seriously, it doesn’t get any better than this.

Hey man, I’m ready to move. I’ve even been reading up on Beaver trapping. Hey Canadians, what city would be a nice place to live for an American ex-pat?

While it may seem reasonable to assume that Canada is ‘not urban, not even suburban’, its simply not true. The majority of Canadians live in cities, with about half living in and around Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver.

Some crappy things about Canada:

1) Winter. Unless you’re into that sort of thing.
2) Ridiculous cell phone bills. Lack of competition sucks.
3) Sin taxes. Beer & tobacco are absurdly expensive.

Some would also say that it’s boring. Canada might not have the lows (re: problems) that America has, but it doesn’t have the successes it has either. It’s a great place to have a peaceful, middle class type lifestyle, but some find that boring and pack up and head to the US.

Also, you didn’t mention one fucked up part of our politics: The Bloc. They have been 2nd in seats (re: power) in gov’t several times during the past 15 years and have one goal: to make Quebec into an independent nation.

Like the author said, every nation has its issues. Our health care system has been repeated said to be on par with, or just a bit better than, the one in the U.S. (certain parts of health care in the U.S. kick our ass, while other parts of ours kick theirs). One thing that is a major difference is the nuances. Few people mention the little things that are different when comparing the two nations. One example is: We don’t refer to each other as a “right winger” or “left winger” when discussing things. Our political conversations are typically far more informed and intelligent than I’ve noticed that of American politics.

We do have gun control here, but having said that, we also have over 7 million registered weapons. That’s legal guns. In a country of 32ish million people, that’s a high percentage, but our murders by firearms is quite low (per capita) compared to the U.S.’s.

Winter varies from one end of the country to the other, just as it does in the U.S. There is no “Canadian winter” since it hardly snows in southern B.C. and snows a little bit in Toronto. The Prairies are where the “Canadian winter” idea comes from.

We have a bountiful of urban areas. Place any American in a decent sized city and s/he wouldn’t immediately know they were in Canada unless they saw a flag or Canadian money. We have Canadian brands, stores, etc, but American capitalism being what it is (proliferated!), we also have most/all of the American stores as well.

Anyway, if anyone has any questions, please feel free to post.

Actually, I don’t think Canadian brands exist so much as Chinese ones. Also, B.C. had a pretty hard winter compared to with Ontario this year.

Oh and Sean’s misinforming you. We use left and right to describe pretty much everything. Sean’s a leftie based on his penultimate statement.

I’ve got one question for you Sean; in many countries I’ve traveled to there is a disconnect in their feelings towards the United States. they’ll at once write it off, denounce its rampant capitalism and profiteering as an evil in the world, then turn around and pop in their 50 cent cd, or their favorite hollywood flic. What’s the prevalence of that in Canada, a near reverence of the culture but disdain for the society that produces that culture?

LGS:

You ask an excellent question and it would be nice if all of your fellow denizens listened to the answer.

The answer is kind of simple and it isn’t: Like most places, the U.S. creates, and has created, a lot of good things. But it has also created a lot of bad things and it’s this very fact that most people either don’t accept or don’t think about. The denouncement of U.S. culture is mostly about politics and partially about U.S. attitudes. For example, not only do Americans think theirs is the greatest country in the world, but most, if not all, other countries are a joke. Most countries feel their country is great, so there’s nothing wrong with pride in one’s homeland. It is when you, as a culture, deride so many other cultures on an ongoing basis that you get a backlash.

In addition to the social aspect, the American government has created a lot of chaos and been responsible for the slaughter of millions over decades. Two quick examples: In 1953, they removed a democratically elected leader of Iran and put in someone who was more favourable to U.S. preferences. The result was 26 years of brutal dictatorship (hence the 1979 Islamic revolution which ousted that individual). Then, in 1971, they removed a democratically elected leader in Peru and helped someone else, who was also more friendly to U.S. preferences, in power. If you know the name Augusto Pinochet, you’ll know why Peruvians don’t necessarily take kind to the U.S. (if not, look him up. Very bad man). Now, these leaders who weren’t sensitive to U.S. interests were not enemies of the U.S. any more than Hugo Chavez is; they just had different ideals, as do many other 1st world countries. The difference is, these are third world countries and the American government felt/feels like it can do whatever it likes to whomever. I could go on and on for a very long time, but these are the things that foster such negative feelings towards the U.S.

Now, forgetting about politics, of course people like to laugh, like to sing, like to party and like things that taste and look good, so most people will separate their ill feelings, politically, and accept things from the same culture they otherwise don’t care for (hence they enjoy the food, music, etc of the U.S. while deriding their politics/social ignorance).

I hope that answers your question.

Kind regards,

Sean

Adrian:

I’ve had hundreds of political discussions with people from across the political spectrum and have never heard anyone use “leftie” or “righty” or whatever. The only ones I see use those terms are those who don’t seem to know what they’re talking about.

Cheers,

sean

There is a large rift in Canada between the ‘left’ and the ‘right’ (liberals, conservatives). Generally speaking, the right supports tighter integration (social/economic/political/etc.) with the U.S., while the left supports the continuation, and extension of our current social/economic policies. I admit that this debate is… quieter in Canada, but it is still quite important to us. Just as the U.S. debates about switching to universal health care, we debate about switching away form it.
As for why Canadians are better liked than Americans: 1. we include diplomacy in our foreign policy, 2. we lack a military capable of destroying the world 10 times over, 3. we tend to leave people outside our borders alone.

No doubt the debate is important in Canada, but in America it just seems toxic at times. So much so that every cause needs to be either right or left. I even think it is worse among the average person. People on the street have to choose sides, at least those in Congress can actually work with the other side every once in a while. For me, the two party system American style tends to obscure a lot of good ideas that don’t neatly fit into the left/right split.

Salute to a brave and modest nation - Kevin Myers, The Sunday Telegraph LONDON

Until the deaths of Canadian soldiers killed in Afghanistan, probably almost no one outside their home country had been aware that Canadian troops are deployed in the region. And as always, Canada will bury its dead, just as the rest of the world, as always will forget its sacrifice just as it always forgets nearly everything Canada ever does.

It seems that Canada’s historic mission is to come to the selfless aid both of its friends and of complete strangers, and then, once the crisis is over, to be well and truly ignored. Canada is the perpetual wallflower that stands on the edge of the hall, waiting for someone to come and ask her for a dance. A fire breaks out, she risks life and limb to rescue her fellow dance-goers, and suffers serious injuries. But when the hall is repaired and the dancing resumes, there is Canada, the wallflower still, while those she once helped glamorously cavort across the floor, blithely neglecting her yet again.

That is the price Canada pays for sharing the North American continent with the United States, and for being a selfless friend of Britain in two global conflicts. For much of the 20th century, Canada was torn in two different directions: It seemed to be a part of the old world, yet had an address in the new one, and that divided identity ensured that it never fully got the gratitude it deserved.

Yet its purely voluntary contribution to the cause of freedom in two world wars was perhaps the greatest of any democracy. Almost 10% of Canada’s entire population of seven million people served in the armed forces during the First World War, and nearly 60 000 died. The great Allied victories of 1918 were spearheaded by Canadian troops, perhaps the most capable soldiers in the entire British order of battle. Canada was repaid for its enormous sacrifice by downright neglect, its unique contribution to victory being absorbed into the popular Memory as somehow or other the work of the British.”

The Second World War provided a re-run. The Canadian navy began the war with a half dozen vessels, and ended up policing nearly half of the Atlantic against U-boat attack. More than 120 Canadian warships participated in the Normandy landings, during which 15000 Canadian soldiers went ashore on D-Day alone. Canada finished the war with the third-largest navy and the fourth-largest air force in the world.

The world thanked Canada with the same sublime indifference as it had the previous time. Canadian participation in the war was acknowledged in film only if it was necessary to give an American actor a part in a campaign in which the United States had clearly not participated - a touching scrupulousness which, of course, Hollywood has since abandoned, as it has any notion of a separate Canadian identity.

So it is a general rule that actors and filmmakers arriving in Hollywood keep their nationality - unless, that is, they are Canadian. Thus Mary Pickford, Walter Huston, Donald Sutherland, Michael J. Fox, William Shatner, Norman Jewison, David Cronenberg, Alex Trebek, Art Linkletter and Dan Aykroyd have in the popular perception become American, and Christopher Plummer, British. It is as if, in the very act of becoming famous, a Canadian ceases to be Canadian, unless she is Margaret Atwood, who is as unshakably Canadian as a moose, or Celine Dion, for whom Canada has proved quite unable to find any takers.

Moreover, Canada is every bit as querulously alert to the achievements of its sons and daughters as the rest of the world is completely unaware of them. The Canadians proudly say of themselves - and are unheard by anyone else - that 1% of the world’s population has provided 10% of the world’s peacekeeping forces. Canadian soldiers in the past half century have been the greatest peacekeepers on Earth - in 39 missions on UN mandates, and six on non-UN peacekeeping duties, from Vietnam to East Timor, from Sinai to Bosnia. Yet the only foreign engagement that has entered the popular on-Canadian imagination was the sorry affair in Somalia, in which out-of-control paratroopers murdered two Somali infiltrators. Their regiment was then disbanded in disgrace - a uniquely Canadian act of self-abasement for which, naturally, the Canadians received no international credit.

So who today in the United States knows about the stoic and selfless friendship its northern neighbour has given it in Afghanistan? Rather like Cyrano de Bergerac, Canada repeatedly does honourable things for honourable motives, but instead of being thanked for it, it remains something of a figure of fun.

It is the Canadian way, for which Canadians should be proud, yet such honour comes at a high cost. This past year more grieving Canadian families knew that cost all too tragically well.

Yes, you are correct that ‘Liberal’ and ‘Conservative’ have their meanings totally distorted up there, even more so than in the USA. But one has to take into consideration what ‘Liberal’ and ‘Conservative’ used to mean, in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries.

‘Liberal’ used to mean absolute or near absolute freedom of speech, right to bear arms, low taxes, low regulation on the economy, strong property rights, right to any religion you choose, right to not be part of any religion, freedom of association, seperation of church and state, habeas corpus, right to fair and swift trial reviewed by peers, independence, individual rights, free markets, free trade, small government, non-interventionism, etc.

In other words, Liberal meant that the Government minded its own business and let people run their own lives. In many ways (but not every way), you can clearly see that much of this is the exact opposite of what many so called ‘liberals’ today preach.

‘Conservative’, by contrast, meant the almost exact reverse. To be a ‘conservative’ in those days meant that one supported the rights of government, rights of the King, high taxes, support for big wars, mercantilism as opposed to capitalism, adherence to tradition, state and church work together, state sponsored religion, citizens of alternative religions are punished (like in pre-industrial europe), racism and racist laws, slavery, few rights for women, government strongly controls economy, required licenses for everything, strong support of bureaucracy, etc. In short the conservatives back then were statists in every possible way, instead of merely on social issues, like the current conservatives. Unlike the conservatives today, they were against the right to bear arms, low taxes, small government and lazziez-faire capitalism.

Classic Liberals:

Thomas Paine
Benjamin Franklin
Adam Smith
John Stuart Mills
Patrick Henry
David Hume
John Locke
Voltaire

Conservatives from that era:
King George of England
King Louis of France
Alexander Hamilton
The Tories
Edmund Burke
Catholic Church
Pro-Slavery advocates
Mercantilist Economists
Thomas Hobbes

more info:
http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/redefining_the_political_spectr u.htm
http://www.mises.org/article.aspx?Id=1559

Yeah the weather in winter can be nasty, but summer is fine.

Basically, many (not all) Canadians just believe in somewhat of a civil society. I think the U.S. went to far down the road of individualism, which is fine, until too many hare the have not people, then they start coming after the rich people’s stuff, and you have to pay more and more to fight crime etc.,

We do pay more in taxes, but I live fine for my needs. Yes it’s harder to amass wealth, but there are plenty of wealthy Canadians, they just pay a higher dollar level in taxes. We support the basics in life, and it’s NOT a free ride.

I don’t think any family, or individual should have to pay insurance that runs out? Okay so you get sick, and well..sorry, you’re left to die on the side of the road, because I didn’t want to spend the additional $100 on my taxes and help out my neighbor.

What’s surprising is the the U.S. is so religious, but hates helping eachother out? Yes you will ALWAYS get free loaders, but you get those anyways, anywhere…they ALWAYS find a way to sit back and be lazy.

In 10 years of employment, i was let go twice and thank god we have mandatory unemployment insurance (we pay into it) and health care. I’m quite sure myself and others would have died of simple illnesses in the states because I would just not be able to afford $600 a month for health insurance.

America does a lot right, but I find it to reactionary, too angry, and the greed is out of control. How can someone be a bible thumper, trumpet god, then steal food from his neighbor when his cupboard is already full?

Teri says  ::  January 30th, 2008 @ 12:08 pm EST
Robert as a fellow canadian i agree with most of what you said above.
Not to say anything bad about Americans , but my greatest fear is the fabeled “North American Union”. Honestly if there is any reality to the NAU theory, God Help us all.
Reply to Teri  ::  Click to quote this comment

I am a Conservative American. We do not steal from our neighbors when our cupboard is already full, you’ve got to make it simple to look at it correctly. Look at it in terms of a race. Conservatives want everyone to start at the same time and the same place, so the one with the best ability will win, fairly. Liberals want everyone to finish at the same time, they give people head starts, and other people inpediments so that it doesn’t matter how skilled you are you will finish at the same time as the lazy, unqualified racer, and so it does not matter how hard you try you’ll get the same result, so whats the use in trying?
ALso, being descended from English and Irish men, i would wish that my brothers to the north with the same heritage would be more Conservative

Alex Thurston says  ::  August 6th, 2008 @ 1:27 am EST
Funny, I thought us lefties wanted everyone to start at the same time and the same place - like, say, in terms of constitutional rights. Care to explain the new FISA bill to me, and why “conservatives” want to give immunity to telecommunications companies who spied on Americans before September 11th? If I spied on another American, I would go to jail. So how are we “starting the same time and the same place” on that one?
Or take our allies overseas. I want to apply the same standard to all of our allies, especially in terms of respect for the rule of law and respect for human rights, but the “conservative” Bush administration cozies up to people like Musharraf in Pakistan and looks the other way when he shits on democracy and when his spies funnel money to the Taliban. Somehow it doesn’t seem to me like conservativsm, or whatever is left of it after Bush, really promotes fairness, but rather selective and failed policies that make America weaker while enriching a handful of corrupt businessmen who couldn’t even really compete in a fair or free market. So spare me the cheap analogies.
Reply to Alex Thurston  ::  Click to quote this comment
Jim Moss says  ::  August 6th, 2008 @ 9:08 am EST
McCauley - What country do you live in, if you think everyone starts at the same time at the same place? It’s not the United States.
Go to pretty much any housing project in any inner city in the country or to any rural trailer park in Appalachia or to any migrant farm village in Florida or California - and ask yourself what it must be like to grow up in one of these places. Check out the schools, the living conditions, the safety conditions, the medical resources, the recreational programs, etc., etc.
Then, go to an affluent suburb or to a wealthy urban neighborhood. Compare. Then try to tell me that they provide equal starting lines for the children that grow up there. I dare you. I double dog dare you.
Reply to Jim Moss  ::  Click to quote this comment

I’m a African American and I find that in American greed is a huge issue. Also,the Conservatives are “Bible Thumpers” that will leave others”Starving” especially if you don’t believe in there short list of what is acceptable. If your gay,black,latino,middle class,etc. watch out. Most Conservatives are wealthy white men or rural men/women.Either they come from wealthy families who saw the last black person in the last century or they live in a trailer and smoke snuf(tobacco) Most of them are no more tolerant than Hitler-you think I’m joking! People took monkeys to rally’s for the Republican Party. If your unaware it a racial slur towards blacks-they used to call us monkeys..Anyway, the Liberal movement includes more freedom for everyone to be on the same level.The issue with Conservatives is they don’t want you to be on the same level.It’s better when they can look down on others and have this huge gap between rich and poor.Oh! They love war! It benefits their friends who own companies that go over and provide services to the poor people they killed.They are not tolerent of other’s religion-EVER! It’s like Hoover they want to kill you or portray you would hurt the “good” people of America! Needless to say, we have millions of Muslims in AMerica.They don’t care! They call Obama and Arab,that doesn’t hurt Black people-it hurts Arabs.You mean to tell me every Arab kills Americans? Prove it? Those Conservatives really believe that crap-really watch the election and see the comments from the Republican rally’s. They actually hate the Arabs just like they hate Blacks,Mexicans and any other person who’s skin isn’t white.So, If you think AMerica is soooooo great…move here! We have some good parts but the BAD parts are really bad…Sorry about my spelling-I was pissed….